A few notes:

- Some users have multiple ids, so have you been counting those?  Emy also has dcy0827 and though I haven't checked, I think he may have won a D2 championship on that id in the last 10 seasons.

- I'd recommend using some of the metrics created in the D3 thread by tarvolon.  He counted seasons per championship along with NT/F4/E8, etc. rates (a lot more work) that do a great job comparing coaches, especially those with a ton of teams and those with only one or two. 

Posted by pepwaves on 7/1/2015 1:17:00 PM (view original):
A few notes:

- Some users have multiple ids, so have you been counting those?  Emy also has dcy0827 and though I haven't checked, I think he may have won a D2 championship on that id in the last 10 seasons.

- I'd recommend using some of the metrics created in the D3 thread by tarvolon.  He counted seasons per championship along with NT/F4/E8, etc. rates (a lot more work) that do a great job comparing coaches, especially those with a ton of teams and those with only one or two. 

No i haven't done multiple ID's yet, I don't know everyones.

Counting the rate is too much work, it's def a better way to do it, but I don't have thaaaaat much time(I mean I might)  I could do it maybe for the Top 5-10 coaches and post that info for the Poll.

Yeah I think that may be the most beneficial anyway.  Just list that info on the poll.  Also if you can link to each coach's resume that'd be really helpful for people too.

This is really all a lot of work though.  You are greatly appreciated for doing it and spurring all this conversation!

Posted by zorzii on 7/1/2015 12:48:00 PM (view original):
You still have to put Azamat there. He is better than Emy and a lot of owners. Emy would be the first one to tell you this. He gets to NT all the time, his team is always relevant and if everything goes well, he could get another NT. Here is my top 5.

1. Aejones
2. Alblack56
3. Azamat
4. Trophaeum
5. Oldresorter
6. Mattstarks
7. Rogelio
8. Bcnopolis
9. Daveredden
10. Emy

It's a lot tougher to get a top 10 in DII. Being dominant is a lot tougher. Just to quote Jsajsa : consistency could be the key to get that top 10 real.

Azamat is a very good coach, one of the best in D2 that I've had the pleasure of playing.  But Zorzii, in my head-to-head matchups with Azamat (he at Humboldt State and I at Post in D2 Rupp), I'VE OWNED him and HE'D be the first one to admit that.  I'd put Azamat in my top 10 for sure, but I'd also have to take exception to the statement that he's clearly better than I am, especially when my H2H record against him is distinctly in my favor.  Just putting that out there.

Oh, and when he is engaged and committed to playing, Aejones is the best, no questions asked (and many people know I can't stand the guy.  But the truth is the truth and he's the best.  Oldresorter and BillyG are also very high up the list as well).

It's an honor just to be mentioned with some of these guys, for sure.  I know where "I" think I rate and that's good enough for me.  I know I'm not the best and I'm fine with that.  Anything else from the rest of the community is just icing on the cake.  I also know that if there was a "super conference" of the 12 best D2 coaches, I'd be playing and not watching.  Call it arrogance, call it cockiness, call it what you will.  I prefer to call it reality. 

Naismith


Coach

DII NT Wins

1. chovy24 125
2. anadeau24 116
3. barretchap 113
4. mullycj 87
5. blackdog3377 68
6. bow2dacowz 61
7. joelhall32 57
8. jtt8355 56
9. cherrycokeze 55
10. aporter 54

Posted by emy1013 on 7/1/2015 1:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 7/1/2015 12:48:00 PM (view original):
You still have to put Azamat there. He is better than Emy and a lot of owners. Emy would be the first one to tell you this. He gets to NT all the time, his team is always relevant and if everything goes well, he could get another NT. Here is my top 5.

1. Aejones
2. Alblack56
3. Azamat
4. Trophaeum
5. Oldresorter
6. Mattstarks
7. Rogelio
8. Bcnopolis
9. Daveredden
10. Emy

It's a lot tougher to get a top 10 in DII. Being dominant is a lot tougher. Just to quote Jsajsa : consistency could be the key to get that top 10 real.

Azamat is a very good coach, one of the best in D2 that I've had the pleasure of playing.  But Zorzii, in my head-to-head matchups with Azamat (he at Humboldt State and I at Post in D2 Rupp), I'VE OWNED him and HE'D be the first one to admit that.  I'd put Azamat in my top 10 for sure, but I'd also have to take exception to the statement that he's clearly better than I am, especially when my H2H record against him is distinctly in my favor.  Just putting that out there.

Oh, and when he is engaged and committed to playing, Aejones is the best, no questions asked (and many people know I can't stand the guy.  But the truth is the truth and he's the best.  Oldresorter and BillyG are also very high up the list as well).

I agree with the last part about aejones, and that's actually what I said in the D3 thread.  I think the problem is jones hasn't been as engaged the past 10+ seasons in every world, so that's why he's slipping big time in the rankings. 

 

But, perhaps these two threads will light a fire under his *** and motivate him to start dominating again. ;)

Posted by aejones on 7/1/2015 11:14:00 AM (view original):
You guys have lost it trying to leave me off both of these lists unless you're actively looking to have no credibility. You take a sample size of 10 from each world when I have a NC for every ~6-9 seasons including the best D2 program of all time. "Hey, who's been really lucky the last 6 months?" Is kind of fun I guess

no way you have the best d2 program of all time. #3 at best.

but, i do think its a little silly you are not on either list. i would put you ahead of most of the guys in the d3 list and all in d2 list (but id also put myself above all those folks on the d2 list - you included - and i dont care about being left off, so not sure what that means). but i also don't think its a terrible approach to say "hey its really hard to compare across times and worlds and versions of the game and all, so lets just simplify by working off recent success". i think 12 months is a bit restrictive for recent success though. too much luck in the big NT games to just go off a small sample.

edit: so in conclusion i am fine with the methodology of active coaches. that would exclude guys like me, rails, OR, even though i think its pretty clear any of the 3 would wreck a lot of the guys who are in the "best coaches right now" discussion, if we were competing against them in their prime. but i do agree its too much to leave aejones off. hes like the modern-times best d2/d3 coach, i dont see anyone in any of this i'd put above him for modern times, and he might even be the best d2/d3 coach ever (i mean, i definitely do not consider him to be myself, but i value coaching and severity of dominance over having lot of teams and being consistently great, but its certainly reasonable to consider him the best d2/d3 ever. i just happened to watch his best program and it was consistently great but not one single team of the whole lot was individually that impressive, and that really matters a lot in how i evaluate. plus hes more of a recruiting great than a coaching great and obviously im biased as hell there too. but by the numbers... come on... you can't have a best modern coach without him!)

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/1/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by aejones on 7/1/2015 11:14:00 AM (view original):
You guys have lost it trying to leave me off both of these lists unless you're actively looking to have no credibility. You take a sample size of 10 from each world when I have a NC for every ~6-9 seasons including the best D2 program of all time. "Hey, who's been really lucky the last 6 months?" Is kind of fun I guess

no way you have the best d2 program of all time. #3 at best.

but, i do think its a little silly you are not on either list. i would put you ahead of most of the guys in the d3 list and all in d2 list (but id also put myself above all those folks on the d2 list - you included - and i dont care about being left off, so not sure what that means). but i also don't think its a terrible approach to say "hey its really hard to compare across times and worlds and versions of the game and all, so lets just simplify by working off recent success". i think 12 months is a bit restrictive for recent success though. too much luck in the big NT games to just go off a small sample.

Agree with billy here, West Chester PA and SIU Edwardsville had better periods as well in just Tark alone, as well as with all the coaches maintained higher win% and more NT bids

Posted by the0nlyis on 7/1/2015 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/1/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by aejones on 7/1/2015 11:14:00 AM (view original):
You guys have lost it trying to leave me off both of these lists unless you're actively looking to have no credibility. You take a sample size of 10 from each world when I have a NC for every ~6-9 seasons including the best D2 program of all time. "Hey, who's been really lucky the last 6 months?" Is kind of fun I guess

no way you have the best d2 program of all time. #3 at best.

but, i do think its a little silly you are not on either list. i would put you ahead of most of the guys in the d3 list and all in d2 list (but id also put myself above all those folks on the d2 list - you included - and i dont care about being left off, so not sure what that means). but i also don't think its a terrible approach to say "hey its really hard to compare across times and worlds and versions of the game and all, so lets just simplify by working off recent success". i think 12 months is a bit restrictive for recent success though. too much luck in the big NT games to just go off a small sample.

Agree with billy here, West Chester PA and SIU Edwardsville had better periods as well in just Tark alone, as well as with all the coaches maintained higher win% and more NT bids

hey re-read my post i made a somewhat lengthy edit since u posted this reply. i didnt say anything because i love what you are doing here, its great to get people involved and nothing is ever perfect. i am all the way down with making this "best active d2" coaches not best ever, because best ever is such a quagmire (although i honestly thought those cross-world cross-era dynasty lists i did, did pretty well). literally i have no qualms about myself or OR or rails or lostmyth or girt not being here. but to say "best active" without aejones... thats a tough sell IMO :) i think it comes down to the window. like last 1 yr, too much luck, a great 25% to win the title team still loses most of the time. but last 2 yrs or so is still very much "recent history" and you can exclude all the folks from different eras and stuff, without getting rid of an active all-time great like aejones. 

any chance you can go back 34 seasons and expand this to a top 100 so i can get a sniff?

lol... i think 1 title 34 seasons ago would still not get you in the top 100 :( sorry :(

what if it was more "most successful" coach at each division.  Maybe that would make the methodology more true to what im doing?

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/1/2015 2:46:00 PM (view original):
lol... i think 1 title 34 seasons ago would still not get you in the top 100 :( sorry :(

damn...laying it down, son...

22 NT wins last 10 seasons (4 S16, 1 E8, 1 FF, 1 CG loss)  (1 team), lost title game 6 seasons ago... 1-4 in D2 title games lifetime - gotta be top 100 I hope? 

and from my co-coach no less! 

It's like no one even recognizes my PI victories.  (sarcasm)