1.  tongue in cheek - my comment was primarily in jest - although most humor takes it base in reality in some way

2. people do - in fact - vary widely in their Work Ethic - in the real world.  

3. Although the ratings in the game are of course arbitrary, we see very few WE of 100 - and in life I dont think I have ever met anyone who gave 100% effort every minute - and I work hard with some extremely driven people in very demanding contexts

"People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So we're different colours
And we're different creeds
And different people have different needs
It's obvious you hate me
Though I've done nothing wrong
I've never even met you so what could I have done

I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand

Help me understand

Now you're punching
And you're kicking
And you're shouting at me
I'm relying on your common decency
So far it hasn't surfaced
But I'm sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fists"

Feel free to resume the thread, but PLEASE consider letting it die.

Posted by fd343ny on 9/3/2015 2:17:00 PM (view original):
1.  tongue in cheek - my comment was primarily in jest - although most humor takes it base in reality in some way

2. people do - in fact - vary widely in their Work Ethic - in the real world.  

3. Although the ratings in the game are of course arbitrary, we see very few WE of 100 - and in life I dont think I have ever met anyone who gave 100% effort every minute - and I work hard with some extremely driven people in very demanding contexts

Sure people vary widely in their work ethic in the real world. That's why you hire and keep the ones with great work ethic.

Your own experiences do not encompass all of reality. That much should be evident since your own experiences run contrary to the fact that some people do give 100 percent effort all the time.

Based upon that, apparently your definition of "extremely driven" is quite loose. I would never label anyone as "extremely driven" if they gave less than 100 percent of their full effort.

Posted by davefilby on 9/3/2015 7:08:00 PM (view original):
"People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So we're different colours
And we're different creeds
And different people have different needs
It's obvious you hate me
Though I've done nothing wrong
I've never even met you so what could I have done

I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand

Help me understand

Now you're punching
And you're kicking
And you're shouting at me
I'm relying on your common decency
So far it hasn't surfaced
But I'm sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fists"

Feel free to resume the thread, but PLEASE consider letting it die.

It always amuses me when someone disagrees but can't formulate an effective argument for said disagreement, they sometimes call for an end to the entire discussion.

100 percent effort during work hours

not a moment thinking about weekend plans with the family?

not a moment day dreaming about the girl he met at a party last week?

not a moment chatting with a co-worker about last night's football game?

not a moment preparing to ask his boss for a raise - rehearsing the speech - asking for a raise is personal, not part of his job, right?

not a moment being distracted on a day when his mind just isnt focused?

I do not know anyone who is truly at 100% and I do not believe that there is anyone who is at 100%.  I think there are good numbers of people who perform at a very high level of effort, which makes them excellent workers and colleagues.  Anyone who imagines that he has attained 100% on a sustained basis is fooling himself.

"the fact that some people do give 100 percent" - is that a fact or an opinion?  where can I look up that fact? got evidence other than your assertion that it is true?

perhaps your understanding of 100% is different from mine - I look at it as mathematical perfection which none of us achieves - that is what I think the words 100 percent mean.  

Posted by shawnfucious on 9/4/2015 7:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 9/3/2015 2:17:00 PM (view original):
1.  tongue in cheek - my comment was primarily in jest - although most humor takes it base in reality in some way

2. people do - in fact - vary widely in their Work Ethic - in the real world.  

3. Although the ratings in the game are of course arbitrary, we see very few WE of 100 - and in life I dont think I have ever met anyone who gave 100% effort every minute - and I work hard with some extremely driven people in very demanding contexts

Sure people vary widely in their work ethic in the real world. That's why you hire and keep the ones with great work ethic.

Your own experiences do not encompass all of reality. That much should be evident since your own experiences run contrary to the fact that some people do give 100 percent effort all the time.

Based upon that, apparently your definition of "extremely driven" is quite loose. I would never label anyone as "extremely driven" if they gave less than 100 percent of their full effort.

luckily, ive missed a bunch of your drivel lately, but this one is pretty bad. what about a 99% worker? 99.99%? still not good enough?

this post is a great example, in showing there will never be a meeting of the minds here. individuals who have evolved beyond our cavemen days generally understand the world is not black and white, and further, that perfection is a goal - a moving target - one that can never be achieved. frankly, if you use anything less as definition for perfection (which you are), you are proving your own imperfection - you are conceding a ceiling, a limit, an inherent imperfection - and lack the vision and mental faculties to even contemplate improvement - where as an individual greater than yourself would continue to improve over time. also you are suggesting anything less than perfection is unacceptable - which to a rational person, borders on insane - that means everything is unacceptable, as nothing is perfect. its like saying the only amount of money you could earn and be satisfied with, is infinity. ok, good luck with that. further, you are sitting here claiming you have achieved this theoretical perfection, which is not only irrational but incredibly narcissistic.

its pretty obvious, nobody can constructively argue with this guy. im sure he will come back with some incredibly lame response about how perfect he is an what slackers we all are, how 99.99% workers are slackers and its our low american standards that makes us think differently. he will probably deny that thinking he is perfect inherently makes him imperfect, using some circular logic and multiple inappropriate usages of the word "fact". all in all, it will only serve to reinforce his own narcissism. please, proceed...

here is article well worth reading - although barely relevant here

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13498818/green-bay-packers-bart-starr-honor-brett-favre-one-last-great-drive-lambeau

but note one quote from Lombardi

On Starr's desk stands a captioned photo of Vince Lombardi quoting one of the coach's many enduring lines. "Perfection is not attainable," it reads, "but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

Now that's a Coach!

That Lombardi guy sounds like a pretty lazy American

Posted by fd343ny on 9/4/2015 8:17:00 AM (view original):
100 percent effort during work hours

not a moment thinking about weekend plans with the family?

not a moment day dreaming about the girl he met at a party last week?

not a moment chatting with a co-worker about last night's football game?

not a moment preparing to ask his boss for a raise - rehearsing the speech - asking for a raise is personal, not part of his job, right?

not a moment being distracted on a day when his mind just isnt focused?

I do not know anyone who is truly at 100% and I do not believe that there is anyone who is at 100%.  I think there are good numbers of people who perform at a very high level of effort, which makes them excellent workers and colleagues.  Anyone who imagines that he has attained 100% on a sustained basis is fooling himself.

"the fact that some people do give 100 percent" - is that a fact or an opinion?  where can I look up that fact? got evidence other than your assertion that it is true?

perhaps your understanding of 100% is different from mine - I look at it as mathematical perfection which none of us achieves - that is what I think the words 100 percent mean.  

One can give 100 percent while doing those things. Remember it is 100 percent of what you have to give, not 100 percent of what you wish to have in the ideal.

Posted by shawnfucious on 9/4/2015 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 9/4/2015 8:17:00 AM (view original):
100 percent effort during work hours

not a moment thinking about weekend plans with the family?

not a moment day dreaming about the girl he met at a party last week?

not a moment chatting with a co-worker about last night's football game?

not a moment preparing to ask his boss for a raise - rehearsing the speech - asking for a raise is personal, not part of his job, right?

not a moment being distracted on a day when his mind just isnt focused?

I do not know anyone who is truly at 100% and I do not believe that there is anyone who is at 100%.  I think there are good numbers of people who perform at a very high level of effort, which makes them excellent workers and colleagues.  Anyone who imagines that he has attained 100% on a sustained basis is fooling himself.

"the fact that some people do give 100 percent" - is that a fact or an opinion?  where can I look up that fact? got evidence other than your assertion that it is true?

perhaps your understanding of 100% is different from mine - I look at it as mathematical perfection which none of us achieves - that is what I think the words 100 percent mean.  

One can give 100 percent while doing those things. Remember it is 100 percent of what you have to give, not 100 percent of what you wish to have in the ideal.

Gadzooks, we agree.

If 100 percent effort means 100 percent AFTER reasonable distractions, divergences, personal activity and the like, then I agree.  Of course that's the goal and of course some people get there for significant periods.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/4/2015 9:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shawnfucious on 9/4/2015 7:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 9/3/2015 2:17:00 PM (view original):
1.  tongue in cheek - my comment was primarily in jest - although most humor takes it base in reality in some way

2. people do - in fact - vary widely in their Work Ethic - in the real world.  

3. Although the ratings in the game are of course arbitrary, we see very few WE of 100 - and in life I dont think I have ever met anyone who gave 100% effort every minute - and I work hard with some extremely driven people in very demanding contexts

Sure people vary widely in their work ethic in the real world. That's why you hire and keep the ones with great work ethic.

Your own experiences do not encompass all of reality. That much should be evident since your own experiences run contrary to the fact that some people do give 100 percent effort all the time.

Based upon that, apparently your definition of "extremely driven" is quite loose. I would never label anyone as "extremely driven" if they gave less than 100 percent of their full effort.

luckily, ive missed a bunch of your drivel lately, but this one is pretty bad. what about a 99% worker? 99.99%? still not good enough?

this post is a great example, in showing there will never be a meeting of the minds here. individuals who have evolved beyond our cavemen days generally understand the world is not black and white, and further, that perfection is a goal - a moving target - one that can never be achieved. frankly, if you use anything less as definition for perfection (which you are), you are proving your own imperfection - you are conceding a ceiling, a limit, an inherent imperfection - and lack the vision and mental faculties to even contemplate improvement - where as an individual greater than yourself would continue to improve over time. also you are suggesting anything less than perfection is unacceptable - which to a rational person, borders on insane - that means everything is unacceptable, as nothing is perfect. its like saying the only amount of money you could earn and be satisfied with, is infinity. ok, good luck with that. further, you are sitting here claiming you have achieved this theoretical perfection, which is not only irrational but incredibly narcissistic.

its pretty obvious, nobody can constructively argue with this guy. im sure he will come back with some incredibly lame response about how perfect he is an what slackers we all are, how 99.99% workers are slackers and its our low american standards that makes us think differently. he will probably deny that thinking he is perfect inherently makes him imperfect, using some circular logic and multiple inappropriate usages of the word "fact". all in all, it will only serve to reinforce his own narcissism. please, proceed...

You want to settle for less than your best effort as an excuse. Your insult attempts only show you have no real argument.

Then again, a caveman had to work hard and give his best effort every day or he might have to go hungry. If you slack off at work, maybe no one will notice right then except you.

I never said perfection was the standard. You added that. It didn't come from me.

I also never said anything less than perfection is unacceptable. Again, that's your little addition. It didn't come from me.

It is certainly obvious YOU can't argue effectively against me. You consistently misrepresent my position, either out of sheer ignorance of it or by design in an attempt to create a strawman you think you can best. Then you launch insult attempts to try to cover your lack of real argument.

The best advice I can sincerely give you is this: Stop making assumptions about me and what I've said. Simply read my statements as they are written and respond to that and only that. Then you might have a shot at arguing against my point, because you'd know what to argue against.

Posted by fd343ny on 9/4/2015 4:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shawnfucious on 9/4/2015 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 9/4/2015 8:17:00 AM (view original):
100 percent effort during work hours

not a moment thinking about weekend plans with the family?

not a moment day dreaming about the girl he met at a party last week?

not a moment chatting with a co-worker about last night's football game?

not a moment preparing to ask his boss for a raise - rehearsing the speech - asking for a raise is personal, not part of his job, right?

not a moment being distracted on a day when his mind just isnt focused?

I do not know anyone who is truly at 100% and I do not believe that there is anyone who is at 100%.  I think there are good numbers of people who perform at a very high level of effort, which makes them excellent workers and colleagues.  Anyone who imagines that he has attained 100% on a sustained basis is fooling himself.

"the fact that some people do give 100 percent" - is that a fact or an opinion?  where can I look up that fact? got evidence other than your assertion that it is true?

perhaps your understanding of 100% is different from mine - I look at it as mathematical perfection which none of us achieves - that is what I think the words 100 percent mean.  

One can give 100 percent while doing those things. Remember it is 100 percent of what you have to give, not 100 percent of what you wish to have in the ideal.

Gadzooks, we agree.

If 100 percent effort means 100 percent AFTER reasonable distractions, divergences, personal activity and the like, then I agree.  Of course that's the goal and of course some people get there for significant periods.

I've always said 100 percent effort means 100 percent of what you have to give at any moment in time.

Things happen which make conditions less than ideal, and often no one has control over those things. Someone is sick, has had a family member pass away, is stressed, or is simply having a "bad day" - all these and a host of others mean conditions are not ideal.

However, if that person works to 100 percent of the effort they can give while dealing with and indeed in spite of these circumstances, that is a hard working person with great work ethic.  The problem is that many people don't do that.

I may disagree with you on "personal activity" being something that is an excuse for less than 100 percent effort, but it's a rather vague concept. 

Reading the above, the five specific examples did not seem vague.

Posted by metsmax on 9/4/2015 8:10:00 PM (view original):
Reading the above, the five specific examples did not seem vague.

the fact is, those examples are extremely vague. for example, fd suggested it would not be 100% unless "not a moment day dreaming about the girl he met at a party last week?". we don't know that. maybe the girl he is day dreaming about is his new boss and he is day dreaming about how he can better calibrate his actions to ensure he always gives 100%.

another fd example - "not a moment chatting with a co-worker about last night's football game?". this one is riddled with assumptions, fd should really stop making assumptions about the work of others and only go off the actual facts about the work of others. what if the employee is a sports commentator and by definition, his job is to chat with co-workers about last night's football game? still giving 100% - in fact, the employee really should be doing that the entire day, to ensure 100% effort. although, if the employee made an unrelated personal phone call to his mistress, to inform her that she should probably get tested, this would still be giving 100%. however, note that spending half the time as the phone call, checking his bank account online, would be stealing. these are just the facts. fd, the sooner you accept them the easier this will be.

Posted by shawnfucious on 9/4/2015 7:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/4/2015 9:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shawnfucious on 9/4/2015 7:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 9/3/2015 2:17:00 PM (view original):
1.  tongue in cheek - my comment was primarily in jest - although most humor takes it base in reality in some way

2. people do - in fact - vary widely in their Work Ethic - in the real world.  

3. Although the ratings in the game are of course arbitrary, we see very few WE of 100 - and in life I dont think I have ever met anyone who gave 100% effort every minute - and I work hard with some extremely driven people in very demanding contexts

Sure people vary widely in their work ethic in the real world. That's why you hire and keep the ones with great work ethic.

Your own experiences do not encompass all of reality. That much should be evident since your own experiences run contrary to the fact that some people do give 100 percent effort all the time.

Based upon that, apparently your definition of "extremely driven" is quite loose. I would never label anyone as "extremely driven" if they gave less than 100 percent of their full effort.

luckily, ive missed a bunch of your drivel lately, but this one is pretty bad. what about a 99% worker? 99.99%? still not good enough?

this post is a great example, in showing there will never be a meeting of the minds here. individuals who have evolved beyond our cavemen days generally understand the world is not black and white, and further, that perfection is a goal - a moving target - one that can never be achieved. frankly, if you use anything less as definition for perfection (which you are), you are proving your own imperfection - you are conceding a ceiling, a limit, an inherent imperfection - and lack the vision and mental faculties to even contemplate improvement - where as an individual greater than yourself would continue to improve over time. also you are suggesting anything less than perfection is unacceptable - which to a rational person, borders on insane - that means everything is unacceptable, as nothing is perfect. its like saying the only amount of money you could earn and be satisfied with, is infinity. ok, good luck with that. further, you are sitting here claiming you have achieved this theoretical perfection, which is not only irrational but incredibly narcissistic.

its pretty obvious, nobody can constructively argue with this guy. im sure he will come back with some incredibly lame response about how perfect he is an what slackers we all are, how 99.99% workers are slackers and its our low american standards that makes us think differently. he will probably deny that thinking he is perfect inherently makes him imperfect, using some circular logic and multiple inappropriate usages of the word "fact". all in all, it will only serve to reinforce his own narcissism. please, proceed...

You want to settle for less than your best effort as an excuse. Your insult attempts only show you have no real argument.

Then again, a caveman had to work hard and give his best effort every day or he might have to go hungry. If you slack off at work, maybe no one will notice right then except you.

I never said perfection was the standard. You added that. It didn't come from me.

I also never said anything less than perfection is unacceptable. Again, that's your little addition. It didn't come from me.

It is certainly obvious YOU can't argue effectively against me. You consistently misrepresent my position, either out of sheer ignorance of it or by design in an attempt to create a strawman you think you can best. Then you launch insult attempts to try to cover your lack of real argument.

The best advice I can sincerely give you is this: Stop making assumptions about me and what I've said. Simply read my statements as they are written and respond to that and only that. Then you might have a shot at arguing against my point, because you'd know what to argue against.

I am not making assumptions, I am expressing my opinions, based on the facts. I know very well the difference between opinion and fact.  Do you understand that my opinions are based upon the facts?

I think that would be a difficult admission for you, since it would likely shatter the notion that you might be able to argue effectively against what I've said.

I already believe that's a foregone conclusion anyway, but sheer stubbornness is likely to keep one without a sound argument from giving up.