I would say look long and hard at what has happened to Gridiron Dynasty after they did their complete overhaul before you make changes so severe that all of your current customers have to relearn an entirely new product.

I think there are many simpler ways to change scouting specifically that doesn't involve starting fresh.  As a simple example I have now used 15 scouting trips on one player and still have no indication as to his defensive ability, and it doesn't take much of a forum search to see that there are more extreme examples than that.

Posted by rednu on 9/11/2015 4:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by arssanguinus on 9/11/2015 11:24:00 AM (view original):
Recruiting being after the season itself would be for the best, letting the counting system during the season be as described would be fine with me.

Just an observation, but if scouting is being done IN SEASON and recruiting is done AFTER the season....at what point would new coaches enter the loop? If they come in during recruiting, they would either have no visible players or be stuck with whatever the Sim version of finding players is because they missed the scouting phase. If they come in AFTER the recruiting phase, I see a Pandora's box where current coaches F-up their recruiting and decide to transfer to a different school rather than live with the ramifications. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but the in-season scouting (which I like) does throw a question mark into how the arc of s season would flow and where the entry point for first-time players would be. 

Let's say Tarv's suggestion is used, and we have basically two signing periods. I'd say put one around conference tourney time, and one right where it is now. So there could then be a second scouting period as well, but limited to the FSS and targeted coach scouting trips. This gives people basically the same kind of scout/recruit experience they have now, just a number of recruits are already off the board. I'd say then that new coaches can come in exactly where they do now. The only question then for me is, in that kind of setup, is there more than one scouting $ disbursement? Or is there one disbursement at rollover, and some of that can be used for late signings, the rest used for next years recruits?

I just feel that the changes are being made to make the game feel more real but the issue is that coaches arent hired after recruiting... Athletic directors would be moronic to wait until the season is about to begin to name a coach.... I love the scouting idea to add season depth but not being able to get in right away recruit is not a good thing or realistic

I think your on the right track seble but lets step back and look at the big picture... In real life coaches recruit before the season so we need to keep it that way... Hd coaches want that.... Adding in season depth is needed and scouting could be an anwser but how can you do that without sacrificing recruiting before season 1

Yes, they recruit before the season starts (beginning in September -actually there is some before this as well but September is when the "Quiet Period" ends) but that is over a year in advance of when those recruits will enroll. The 2015 season for college basketball begins in November and the early period national signing day for students enrolling in the fall of 2016 will be November 11, 2015. Players can then sign in the early period through November 18th. The regular signing period for fall 2016 enrollment then begins on April 13th -10 or so days after the national championship game. That signing period continues until May 18, 2016. Since most coaches are fired after the season ends new coaches typically aren't hired until April. This leaves very little time for a new coach to get acclimated and complete any recruiting (assuming the outgoing coach hadn't already signed players in the prior November) before the start of the upcoming season. It certainly puts them behind the 8 ball for their first full season. With the exception of the recruiting that is done in that short window through May 18th, most recruiting is done September through March of the current season for enrollment in the following basketball season.

As a fan of a program that fires and hires coaches on a regular basis, I can attest that possumfiend is right.  The new staff that comes in has almost no chance at getting decent recruits that first year.  The best players are already gone and you're basically sifting through the dumpster at that point.  All you get are the players that signed during the early signing period, and half of those are released from their LOI to pursue other opportunities.

Posted by tarvolon on 9/11/2015 12:58:00 PM (view original):
slim: the way I see it, you're not paying much attention to the on-court results that first season, but that means you have a lot more time to dedicate to scouting/recruiting. 

Yes tarv I see your point, but it still, like 0nylsis says, delays your re-build 1 season.

jsajsa makes a great point that, if someone knew they were leaving or moving up, why would they recruit? This would  leave multiple walk-ons on the team they are leaving--destroying the team.

Getting back to the new players ( and that is what this game really needs)--and I don't like to repeat myself but I definitely see them quitting more easily with this new system after one season.

I know this has some flaws and parts are unrealistic with real life college hoops but here is an idea: For new players when signing up for a team, Instead of waiting for the season to roll over--new players to HD would be brought into their new teams with 6 days left in the regular season of the current season for scouting purposes only. They could see the games that were played and get a feel for the game--though they make no decisions in it. They could start to understand why some players score a lot of points, some get rebounds, and some get scored upon and how the game operated on a daily basis. This would be much better than the current system where they are dropped into the game blind and what is it--2 days later they are recruiting. This way they would have a say in their roster and have a lot more of a feel for the game.

This is where it gets a little tricky and unrealistic: For current coaches: Also add a second and early job change session for coaches wanting to take over SIM teams only. Make it from 4 days left in the regular season to 2 days left in the regular season. This way for coaches who know they are going to move up or change schools the next season--they would have a way to have a say in their roster in the first season they take over a team. They would play out the current season at their current school but be recruiting for their next job at the other school. This is unrealistic and has flaws, but does solve some of the concerns I and others have with wasting a season when switching jobs under the proposed changes. This would have to be for coaches that did not spend any money during the season on scouting. It would not be right for a coach to spend a bunch of money on scouting and upon seeing that there were not many good recruits visible to him--then deciding to bolt. So if you knew entering a season this could by your last at the school--you simply would not scout any players early. IF you did not get the job you wanted--you would still have time to scout players and stay at your current school.

The other option as seble says is to just have a longer recruiting session and keep scouting\recruiting before the season. The job change\renewal session could be shorted 1 day as well as the recruiting period. This would give 2 more days of scouting making it a total of 3 1\2 days. That seems like the best to me IF they are going through with this very big overhaul of recruiting.

I haven't read all this, but have read enough to spout off some uninformed opinions, I'll keep it simple, and if someone already said this good for them.

Season starts. You scout for like 3 days with the scouting budget, then you recruit for like 4 days with the recruiting budget. Everything else stays the same.

Achieves the goal of every coach not seeing every recruit equally, avoids the vast majority of issues with all of the coaching changes/transfers/early entries/monetary awards.

Tear apart.

Posted by vandydave on 9/11/2015 7:46:00 PM (view original):
I haven't read all this, but have read enough to spout off some uninformed opinions, I'll keep it simple, and if someone already said this good for them.

Season starts. You scout for like 3 days with the scouting budget, then you recruit for like 4 days with the recruiting budget. Everything else stays the same.

Achieves the goal of every coach not seeing every recruit equally, avoids the vast majority of issues with all of the coaching changes/transfers/early entries/monetary awards.

Tear apart.

pretty much said that exact same thing earlier

Cut down the days job apps take as well as getting rid of that "renewal day".  And push signings back a day since that last day is rarely used than by a few battles.

Start job apps, the 2pm cycle after the nc game.  end it after 2 days we see a lot of transfers in the first 2 shifts, but few later on. And start recruit earlier.

Even better to add more time to recruiting under the current schedule time(27 days/45 days).

• Once recruits sign they can be added to depth chart and practice plan
• Get rid of that 11th non-conf game which is possible since it now happens quite often(add that waiting day to the end for recruiting
• Start job apps the 12pm after the nc game and 2pm is when all the non-renewed jobs open
• Cut job apps down a day(and add that day to recruiting)
• Bam recruiting has now 2 extra days where you can make the first one only for scouting and then start it a day earlier and take off the last day completely if wanted

But yeah I like 2/3 days for scouting and 4/5 for recruiting like you said better

PS - something that MUST change no matter what happens is you create the ability to allow coaches to "pre-load" the first cycle of recruiting efforts prior to the first cycle. As it stands now if you for some reason simply cannot get online during the first cycle of recruiting you are so severely hindered in some cases that you almost might as well not recruit. Adding in scouting before recruiting seems like it could allow that.

Posted by vandydave on 9/11/2015 7:56:00 PM (view original):
PS - something that MUST change no matter what happens is you create the ability to allow coaches to "pre-load" the first cycle of recruiting efforts prior to the first cycle. As it stands now if you for some reason simply cannot get online during the first cycle of recruiting you are so severely hindered in some cases that you almost might as well not recruit. Adding in scouting before recruiting seems like it could allow that.

+1

I skimmed a lot of this and maybe I missed this (apologies if it was already discussed) but don't forget about cutting players. Another reason for a post season signing period. I also like the idea of early and an abbreviated late signing period.

Posted by bakerbarnett on 9/11/2015 8:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vandydave on 9/11/2015 7:56:00 PM (view original):
PS - something that MUST change no matter what happens is you create the ability to allow coaches to "pre-load" the first cycle of recruiting efforts prior to the first cycle. As it stands now if you for some reason simply cannot get online during the first cycle of recruiting you are so severely hindered in some cases that you almost might as well not recruit. Adding in scouting before recruiting seems like it could allow that.

+1

top easy change that would enhance the game for users!

First, to those of you threatening to quit the game if any changes are made, I say hogwash. We have all been ******** and ******** and ******** for years to improve the game. Finally seble comes out with some ideas and people are threatening to walk. Unless seble does nothing at all, some coaches will quit. That's unavoidable. Just make sure the changes are strong enough to retain new coaches. To me, the most critical changes to this game need to be the ones that fill all those empty conferences. When coaches coach in active full leagues and have inter league comraderie, they are much more likely to keep coaching and that's better for all of us. The current status quo is great to some of you. But when we have fifty percent of worlds empty, that's just not good. And any fix will cause people to overreact. I say redesign. The changes might be fun. If anything the fact that the game currently is so weak at large parts of the season is a bad thing. People always hate things that are new or that they don't understand. That's life. That's not a reason not to test it and see in beta.

Seble, your suggestion to let coaches have the sim recruit, if they want, instead is great! If a coach does not want to spend time on recruiting then let sim do it. I think in season scouting is a GREAT idea. I hate doing recruiting all at once. And it's not realistic. In real life, coaches scout year around. With EEAs, look at real life Duke and Kentucky. They lost most of their players and quickly reloaded anyway. They scouted all year long these guys and once they knew who was leaving (after the season), they went out and grabbed the elite recruits (who always wait to sign). Just copy real life and it should work.

I also think just sifting through data all day is not exciting. Adding more layers to recruiting is a good idea, you're on the right track here. I really don't think its that challenging to learn either. Like I said, people are reflexively negative. I don't want that to deter future changes. I just think improving usage and retaining new coaches has to be top priority. A game with very very few sim coaches is a much more challenging and exciting product in my opinion.

Posted by kbc167 on 9/12/2015 2:36:00 AM (view original):
First, to those of you threatening to quit the game if any changes are made, I say hogwash. We have all been ******** and ******** and ******** for years to improve the game. Finally seble comes out with some ideas and people are threatening to walk. Unless seble does nothing at all, some coaches will quit. That's unavoidable. Just make sure the changes are strong enough to retain new coaches. To me, the most critical changes to this game need to be the ones that fill all those empty conferences. When coaches coach in active full leagues and have inter league comraderie, they are much more likely to keep coaching and that's better for all of us. The current status quo is great to some of you. But when we have fifty percent of worlds empty, that's just not good. And any fix will cause people to overreact. I say redesign. The changes might be fun. If anything the fact that the game currently is so weak at large parts of the season is a bad thing. People always hate things that are new or that they don't understand. That's life. That's not a reason not to test it and see in beta.

Seble, your suggestion to let coaches have the sim recruit, if they want, instead is great! If a coach does not want to spend time on recruiting then let sim do it. I think in season scouting is a GREAT idea. I hate doing recruiting all at once. And it's not realistic. In real life, coaches scout year around. With EEAs, look at real life Duke and Kentucky. They lost most of their players and quickly reloaded anyway. They scouted all year long these guys and once they knew who was leaving (after the season), they went out and grabbed the elite recruits (who always wait to sign). Just copy real life and it should work.

I also think just sifting through data all day is not exciting. Adding more layers to recruiting is a good idea, you're on the right track here. I really don't think its that challenging to learn either. Like I said, people are reflexively negative. I don't want that to deter future changes. I just think improving usage and retaining new coaches has to be top priority. A game with very very few sim coaches is a much more challenging and exciting product in my opinion.

+1