Do you think Manny is a HoF?

It's a small sample size, but ESPN voters revealed who they would vote for next year.  Doesn't look good for Manny or Pudge.

espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14541368/espn-2017-baseball-hall-fame-ballot

I see Sheffield, Walker and Vlad as very comparable players.

Sheffield was a real jerk and that's going to hurt you among the HOF voters. He also was the weakest defender of the 3.

Walker was the best hitter out of them, but everyone hates Coors field.

Vlad & Walker both have MVPs, neither has a WS ring, and neither hit very well in the postseason.

Vlad had 3 top-3 MVP finishes, Walker only had the 1, but his best seasons tended to be shortened by injury.

I think none are getting in. Vlad is one of my favorite all-time players, so I'd like to see him in, but I think Walker probably has the best case, but still not enough.

Vlad doesn't have any steroid rumors which should help. He feels like a HOFer IMO!

Could you list any 10 year players that don't feel like a HOFer to you?     I think that's the shorter list.

Posted by d_rock97 on 1/8/2016 4:54:00 PM (view original):
Do you think Manny is a HoF?

no way Manny is a HoFamer. Sheffield or Walker either for that matter. I don't think Posada is either. He was good for a long time, but I don't think he was ever great. And that's a Yankee fan saying that

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2016 2:19:00 PM (view original):
Could you list any 10 year players that don't feel like a HOFer to you?     I think that's the shorter list.

Based upon this years HOF ballot and the past couple of years, these are guys I don't think are HOFers even though they seem to have quite a bit of support.  Plus some of the usual suspects.

• Jack Morris
• Mike Mussina
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Andre Dawson
• Fred McGriff
• Jim Rice
• Bruce Sutter
• Goose Gossage
• Bert Blyleven
• Bill Mazeroski
• Gary Carter

Manny should absolutely be a HOF for me.  During his 14-year peak from 1995-2008, he hit 30+ doubles 12 times, 30+ HRs 12 times, drove in 100+ runs 12 times, hit at least .300 11 times, and had a .400+ OBP 9 times.  He never had fewer than 20 HRs, an average below .292, or an OBP below .377 during the entire span.  His triple slash line - for 14 years - was .317/.414/.598 with a 157 OPS+.  His career OPS+ of 154 is tied with Frank Robinson for 27th all time.  He didn't have as extreme a peak as some of the steroid-era bats, but his consistency was amongst the best of any hitter in the history of the sport.  Not a likeable guy, which hurt him.  Also not a good defender.  But in the end, with the exception of a few all-time great defenders, the HOF has always been more about hitting.  Not a lot of guys hit like Manny.

Just for reference: Manny's career average was .312.  Griffey hit at least .312 twice in his career.  Manny's career OBP was .411.  Griffey NEVER had a season with a .411 OBP.  He did top Manny's career slugging number 5 times, though.  Manny was above his own average 10 times.  Maybe it was just all that time Manny spent in Fenway.  Except, Griffey only topped Manny's career OPS+ of 154 4 times, too (he also equalled it once).  I know defense matters.  I know playing CF helps.  But Manny is just obviously, unquestionably, head and shoulders above Griffey with the bat.  If Griffey is a near-unanimous first-ballot HOFer, Manny has to be in.

I don't think anyone would say that Manny's career performance isn't HOF worthy. It's the PEDs that will keep him out.

Posted by wylie715 on 1/15/2016 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 1/8/2016 4:54:00 PM (view original):
Do you think Manny is a HoF?

no way Manny is a HoFamer. Sheffield or Walker either for that matter. I don't think Posada is either. He was good for a long time, but I don't think he was ever great. And that's a Yankee fan saying that

I agree with BL. Manny is definitely HOF material. He just is one fo the most obvious PED guys. Shef was a good, but not great player for a long time. But he bounced around (which is usually a sign he's not 'high-valued' during his career - he's a very good mercenary), and really had some very good seasons, but few spectacular moments.

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/15/2016 6:51:00 PM (view original):
Manny should absolutely be a HOF for me.  During his 14-year peak from 1995-2008, he hit 30+ doubles 12 times, 30+ HRs 12 times, drove in 100+ runs 12 times, hit at least .300 11 times, and had a .400+ OBP 9 times.  He never had fewer than 20 HRs, an average below .292, or an OBP below .377 during the entire span.  His triple slash line - for 14 years - was .317/.414/.598 with a 157 OPS+.  His career OPS+ of 154 is tied with Frank Robinson for 27th all time.  He didn't have as extreme a peak as some of the steroid-era bats, but his consistency was amongst the best of any hitter in the history of the sport.  Not a likeable guy, which hurt him.  Also not a good defender.  But in the end, with the exception of a few all-time great defenders, the HOF has always been more about hitting.  Not a lot of guys hit like Manny.

Just for reference: Manny's career average was .312.  Griffey hit at least .312 twice in his career.  Manny's career OBP was .411.  Griffey NEVER had a season with a .411 OBP.  He did top Manny's career slugging number 5 times, though.  Manny was above his own average 10 times.  Maybe it was just all that time Manny spent in Fenway.  Except, Griffey only topped Manny's career OPS+ of 154 4 times, too (he also equalled it once).  I know defense matters.  I know playing CF helps.  But Manny is just obviously, unquestionably, head and shoulders above Griffey with the bat.  If Griffey is a near-unanimous first-ballot HOFer, Manny has to be in.

Manny and Griff are apples and oranges. Manny was a barely passable fielder with a top 10 all-time bat. Griff was an elite glove in CF with elite power and above average batting skills.