Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

"Finally the recruit commits to his school"

Wrong. Being in the lead before signings means nothing. The recruit commits when he signs.

I have been poached many times. I've done it myself a few times (although I do try to avoid it whenever feasible). When you get poached you have two options:

A. Start complaining in either in the forum, coaches corner, or in a sitemail to the other coach
B. Make a mental note about who that coach is. Build up your own program, or move to a better one. Give the other guy a dose of his own medicine.

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

This is just nutty.

When does "poaching" (which there's NO such thing as, in my opinion) start?  The 2nd cycle?  Day 4?  What if a coach can't start recruiting until day 2 or 3?  Are they just supposed to take whatever scraps are left?  If recruiting was a rush to get considered by all the guys you like as quickly as you can then it'd be pretty damn boring.

There's no "dibs" button in HD.  A recruit isn't your until he signs.  You don't want to lose recruits late?  Then pay more attention to schools near you, their prestige, what they're doing during recruiting, and estimate how much money they have left at signings.  If that's too much work then D1 isn't for you.

And this is coming from a guy that just lost two, 5-star recruits at signings in Crum (and nearly a 4-star as well).  I didn't get "poached."  Other teams with more resources saved and utilized those resources better than I did.  Plain and simple.  

Welcome to Division 1 recruiting.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/17/2016 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

This is just nutty.

When does "poaching" (which there's NO such thing as, in my opinion) start?  The 2nd cycle?  Day 4?  What if a coach can't start recruiting until day 2 or 3?  Are they just supposed to take whatever scraps are left?  If recruiting was a rush to get considered by all the guys you like as quickly as you can then it'd be pretty damn boring.

There's no "dibs" button in HD.  A recruit isn't your until he signs.  You don't want to lose recruits late?  Then pay more attention to schools near you, their prestige, what they're doing during recruiting, and estimate how much money they have left at signings.  If that's too much work then D1 isn't for you.

And this is coming from a guy that just lost two, 5-star recruits at signings in Crum (and nearly a 4-star as well).  I didn't get "poached."  Other teams with more resources saved and utilized those resources better than I did.  Plain and simple.  

Welcome to Division 1 recruiting.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

Agreed .. I don't like losing guys .. but it is on me to know how much a guy is going to cost and appropriate accordingly.  I don't much like it, which is why most of my teams are D2/D3.

And by don't like it .. what I mean is, I don't like havnig to take a Big6 or big name school to be able to win consistently.  And yes I know that the A10 or Conference USA can also win IF you get a group of good coaches and build as a team.  But that also requires you to be in a kind of high baseline conference and pretty much fill the conference.

So, D1 recruiting is challenging, and it is fun.  But it is also painful :)

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/17/2016 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

This is just nutty.

When does "poaching" (which there's NO such thing as, in my opinion) start?  The 2nd cycle?  Day 4?  What if a coach can't start recruiting until day 2 or 3?  Are they just supposed to take whatever scraps are left?  If recruiting was a rush to get considered by all the guys you like as quickly as you can then it'd be pretty damn boring.

There's no "dibs" button in HD.  A recruit isn't your until he signs.  You don't want to lose recruits late?  Then pay more attention to schools near you, their prestige, what they're doing during recruiting, and estimate how much money they have left at signings.  If that's too much work then D1 isn't for you.

And this is coming from a guy that just lost two, 5-star recruits at signings in Crum (and nearly a 4-star as well).  I didn't get "poached."  Other teams with more resources saved and utilized those resources better than I did.  Plain and simple.  

Welcome to Division 1 recruiting.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

I agree (for the most part) with darnoc here.

While I certainly wish D1 was more like D2 and D3, the fact is, it's simply NOT like them in most respects, especially during recruiting.

As a mid-major team, you've got to pick your spots. You can't just go gunning for the best possible recruits and then get angry when you lose a battle or a bigger school takes them away.

One option is to not shoot for the top notch players in the first place. You should know it's highly likely even if you manage to get on them early without a bigger school being right on them as well (which is what usually happens anyway), it's highly likely one of them will jump on board before signings. Call that poaching if you want, but it's not cheating and is how the game works.

Another options is to test the waters with those higher level players and see what you can do. Maybe no big school will jump on him at all. You have to realize this is a chance you're taking, so you should do it while keeping in mind any money you put into the player may simply be flushed down the toilet.

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/17/2016 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

This is just nutty.

When does "poaching" (which there's NO such thing as, in my opinion) start?  The 2nd cycle?  Day 4?  What if a coach can't start recruiting until day 2 or 3?  Are they just supposed to take whatever scraps are left?  If recruiting was a rush to get considered by all the guys you like as quickly as you can then it'd be pretty damn boring.

There's no "dibs" button in HD.  A recruit isn't your until he signs.  You don't want to lose recruits late?  Then pay more attention to schools near you, their prestige, what they're doing during recruiting, and estimate how much money they have left at signings.  If that's too much work then D1 isn't for you.

And this is coming from a guy that just lost two, 5-star recruits at signings in Crum (and nearly a 4-star as well).  I didn't get "poached."  Other teams with more resources saved and utilized those resources better than I did.  Plain and simple.  

Welcome to Division 1 recruiting.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

Says a guy who plays in a big six conference with all the money.....hope you can recruit when the process changes. Neither myself or UCF would of battled for the recruit for three days had any big six conference team would of been involved. It's funny how the coaches for the proçess are the ones who have a re recruiting advantage with bigger budgets

Posted by mrg1037 on 1/17/2016 12:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

"Finally the recruit commits to his school"

Wrong. Being in the lead before signings means nothing. The recruit commits when he signs.

I have been poached many times. I've done it myself a few times (although I do try to avoid it whenever feasible). When you get poached you have two options:

A. Start complaining in either in the forum, coaches corner, or in a sitemail to the other coach
B. Make a mental note about who that coach is. Build up your own program, or move to a better one. Give the other guy a dose of his own medicine.

there's a third option - Don't take it personally. Learn from it how to be a better recruiter. Get better at the game (without the "dose of his own medicine bullshit")

Posted by willowcards2 on 1/17/2016 1:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/17/2016 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

This is just nutty.

When does "poaching" (which there's NO such thing as, in my opinion) start?  The 2nd cycle?  Day 4?  What if a coach can't start recruiting until day 2 or 3?  Are they just supposed to take whatever scraps are left?  If recruiting was a rush to get considered by all the guys you like as quickly as you can then it'd be pretty damn boring.

There's no "dibs" button in HD.  A recruit isn't your until he signs.  You don't want to lose recruits late?  Then pay more attention to schools near you, their prestige, what they're doing during recruiting, and estimate how much money they have left at signings.  If that's too much work then D1 isn't for you.

And this is coming from a guy that just lost two, 5-star recruits at signings in Crum (and nearly a 4-star as well).  I didn't get "poached."  Other teams with more resources saved and utilized those resources better than I did.  Plain and simple.  

Welcome to Division 1 recruiting.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

Says a guy who plays in a big six conference with all the money.....hope you can recruit when the process changes. Neither myself or UCF would of battled for the recruit for three days had any big six conference team would of been involved. It's funny how the coaches for the proçess are the ones who have a re recruiting advantage with bigger budgets

you know people ***** about "poaching" at all levels, right? I'm recruiting D2 right now with about a zillion dollars 2 cycles before signings, with an A+ prestige (not that that's worth much in D2). If I wanted to I could probably really **** up a lower tier D2 program by spending that money at the buzzer, and it would have nothing to do with baseline or Big 6...

Posted by willowcards2 on 1/17/2016 10:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 8:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by possumfiend on 1/16/2016 10:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cbriese on 1/16/2016 8:28:00 PM (view original):
"Hey, Johnny, this is Coach Hamilton of Florida State. I realize that you've already told the good folks at UAB that you'll play for their program, but I'd like to offer you a full-ride scholarship to Florida State. You'll get to play all the ACC teams every year, and your family and friends will be able to watch you on ESPN many, many times each season. We really need you when we go up against Duke and North Carolina. I completely understand, however, if you want to honor your commitment to the Blazer staff - after all, they get the make trips to schools like Western Kentucky every season. I am hoping you will consider becoming a Seminole, and maybe one day adding your name to a list of the 30 Florida State players, like Dave Cowens and Sam Cassell, who have made the jump to the NBA."

"Sorry, coach, but I'd really prefer to go to the University of Alabama, Birmingham", said no one ever.

Not disagreeing with you as to the outcome with regards to a RL recruiting battle between UAB and FSU but the difference between RL and HD (and the flaw in the HD recruiting process) is that in RL UAB would probably have back up options they could recruit after Florida State came calling.  In HD the ONLY chance UAB has at landing a guy who could be a "difference maker" is to commit all of their recruiting resources, particularly when another mid major is also recruiting the guy.  The result is that when he is poached both mid-majors are then stuck with taking a walk on SIM because they don't have other options.  That's absurd and is completely unrealistic and disincentivizes teams from ever trying to sign better players.  If there's no realistic "back up" recruiting process available in HD, I don't think it's unreasonable to impose recruiting penalties for teams that make no discernible recruiting effort until late in the process.

The other place where this is completely unrealistic is that in RL Florida State doesn't wait until the day or week before signings to start recruiting.  They'd be so far behind the eight ball at that point that they would never compete in a Big 6 conference because all of the premiere talent would be long gone.  The fact that this game allows  higher prestige teams to effectively take any player they choose after sitting idly by doing nothing until right before signing leaves the UAB's and other lower prestige schools with very little chance to recover and at a big disadvantage.  

"Hey Johnny, this is Coach Haase of UAB.  I'm interested in recruiting you to play Blazer basketball next season but I just realized that the good folks at Florida State haven't started recruiting for next season yet and tomorrow is signing day.  I realize that neither you or I know if FSU is even going to start recruiting but I just don't want to take any chances in case they do. Would you mind sitting idly by until they start recruiting so I can determine if they might want you to play at their school.  I mean, you know how it is, if I try to recruit you and they jump it at the last minute I'll have no chance to recruit anyone else this season."

That's never happened either.

I think you make a great point possumfiend. The real crux of the problem is'nt that FSU took UAB's recruit, it's that FSU took UAB's recruit at 0 hour, when UAB thought they had fought for, and won, the rights to signing this recruit. If FSU had declared their intentions on day 1, of the recruiting process, then UAB most likely would have backed off, and would'nt have spent most of their budget, and I believe could have accepted at that point that they could'nt compete with FSU, and moved on to another recruit without having too much animosity... So some kind of stern penalty for teams coming in at the last second, and "poaching" another team's recruit might be the remedy for this problem. Maybe they lose 20% of their recruiting budget for next season, if they do what FSU is accused of doing. I believe this would force them to declare for prospects earlier, and would eliminate most of the so called "poaching" by power 6 teams.

Exactly if I had known Free shoe u FSU was interested in the recruit I would on never bother with him. It is the fact that both me and UCF were battling for him for three days then out of no where comes big budget to take him away. Funny how many great coaches are weighing in and màking great points about how the process is broken....the poachers have gone and hidden. Come out FSU in crum world defend your actions

this is ridiculous... a ton of coaches in this thread poach. i poach. i get poached. its part of the game. if you want to stick your head in the sand, and not play the game that we are handed, and instead impose your own rules, that is your call. don't expect the rest of us to do the same. i'm not going to sit around getting poached, and complain that another coach acted in their own self interests, and i'm surely not going to sit around getting poached, and not poach myself. its ridiculous to expect either from me, or anyone.

this is what im talking about... this is the garbage opinion that helps nobody and just makes some of you guys sound like whiny little babies. its not a poachers fault for playing the game at hand. if you want to say the game is flawed, then yes, i would agree with that. don't try to make it personal, don't throw in your emotional garbage. ill say what you apparently are looking for someone to say, so you can cry some more - FSU did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG. the game is flawed, yes, but FSU is 100% in the clear for their actions. the only one at fault here, is you, for whining like a baby, instead of focusing on the issues like an adult. there, i said it. flame away, it won't get you anywhere, but if it makes you feel better, im happy to oblige.

edit: i didn't comment directly to your first few posts of whiny nonsense, giving you the benefit of the doubt, that it was just the smack of the issue just having happened. but its time to get over it. 

Posted by willowcards2 on 1/17/2016 1:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/17/2016 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

This is just nutty.

When does "poaching" (which there's NO such thing as, in my opinion) start?  The 2nd cycle?  Day 4?  What if a coach can't start recruiting until day 2 or 3?  Are they just supposed to take whatever scraps are left?  If recruiting was a rush to get considered by all the guys you like as quickly as you can then it'd be pretty damn boring.

There's no "dibs" button in HD.  A recruit isn't your until he signs.  You don't want to lose recruits late?  Then pay more attention to schools near you, their prestige, what they're doing during recruiting, and estimate how much money they have left at signings.  If that's too much work then D1 isn't for you.

And this is coming from a guy that just lost two, 5-star recruits at signings in Crum (and nearly a 4-star as well).  I didn't get "poached."  Other teams with more resources saved and utilized those resources better than I did.  Plain and simple.  

Welcome to Division 1 recruiting.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

Says a guy who plays in a big six conference with all the money.....hope you can recruit when the process changes. Neither myself or UCF would of battled for the recruit for three days had any big six conference team would of been involved. It's funny how the coaches for the proçess are the ones who have a re recruiting advantage with bigger budgets

For what it's worth in the past 2 seasons I've had a total of 15 openings and $287,000 to recruit with (which included triple carryover in a big 6 conference).  In those 2 seasons I signed 4 guys worth a damn.  Last season I spent over $100K on a local kid and lost.  Part of the problem was I'd never recruited high D1 before, part was because I can only check 2 cycles a day so I can't really pay attention to what other schools are doing, and last there's an insanely strong ACC to my East and Clemson and GT are < 200 miles from me.  Learned some expensive lessons.  But I also know this is what D1 recruiting is and I'm certainly not crying when I lose good recruits at signings.  

I honestly don't think "poaching" is going away with the new updates; if anything it might lessen a bit.  HD has 3 divisions; it's no secret D1 is a totally different animal than D2/D3.  I understand you don't like "poaching" but it's WELL within the confines of the game.  Given the gobs of money available at D1 "poaching" won't ever go away.  

Last, if you've paid attention over the past SEVERAL seasons FSU recruits the same way nearly EVERY season.  They do nothing the first cycle (in fact, I believe I remember the coach putting something on his CC saying he rarely gets to a computer that first cycle because that 2-hr window is so narrow).  They sometimes go after a kid or 2 the second cycle.  Days 2 and 3 are when he does most of his recruiting.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  These are the things you need to be noticing to succeed at D1.

I poach and I'm proud of it.  I couldn't poach when I was at Samford... so I recruited accordingly.  I could poach a little at Xavier eventually... so I recruited accordingly.  I am now at Maryland, which was quite average when I took over (B- prestige when I started, went to a C+ during rebuild and now an A...).  Now I can finally poach more often.  The team that is vulnerable to poaching has to learn proper risk assessment when recruiting. 

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 1/17/2016 10:14:00 AM (view original):
In a double-edged sword sort of supporting post, I'd like to link to this blurb of a "story" about John Caliperi using basically this same technique, but IRL. (Also, note the irony of Julius ******* Hodge - the player that last-minute ditched SU for NC State, being the one to call out Caliperi. I guess Hodge wasn't "technically" committed to SU yet, so no harm, no foul, right?)

It's double-edged because while it shows a real-life comparison and therefore helps logically boost my point, its John ******* Caliperi, and he is a supreme ****, so I suppose if you act like him in game its fair to be called a **** here too...not that anyone but me said that - but they all want to. 

I don't believe that using John Caliperi as an example of how RL recruiting works, is a good one. What does the term "student athlete" mean to Caliperi? It seems to mean "farm system for the NBA", and is about as far removed from what college athletics should be as one can possibly get. He is totally RUTHLESS, and indiscriminate, when it comes to recruiting practices. Do we really want our game to mirror Caliperi's recruiting philosophies? I don't think so. So in the interest of fair play, sportsmanship, and equality, I think something does need to be done, to curb the practice of "poaching". Some sort of harsh penalty to offenders would seem to me, to be the best solution.

i think that the game should be restructured to give mid majors a better chance to hold off poachers on their primary target. i don't think a direct penalty for poaching is the way to go (and you are definitely off-base calling them "offenders", they are simply playing the game - make this about fixing the game, not flaming other coaches). i do think considering credit was a good idea - but its poorly implemented, i think it should make a difference on the WHOLE of your efforts, not just the efforts in place before the other school jumped in. this would go a long way to curb "poaching", but always, it should be the case that a school who over extends themselves, should be open to getting "poached".

also, we can't make this game too harsh for the folks who have a real life that is at odds with always being available to start the game in an exact 2 hour window not of their choosing. a lot of people here are lucky - they either don't have demanding real lives, or, their demanding real lives offer more flexibility than other folks, with respect to the start of recruiting. there has to be a way for folks who don't get to start, to compete, and today, the only way is to poach. the game would need to be restructured in some way to address that, before giving poaching too much of a nerf-stick. otherwise, its really unfair to those folks with demanding real lives, much more so than the game is today to those who get poached. at least those who got poached had a chance to play the game.

anyway, i think the best answer is a combination of smaller tweaks, more than some magic bullet that disrupts things in a major way. making promises meaningful, that is a great idea, i don't think hardly anyone is against that. i do think those promises need to be adjusted, again, the construct of the game today is too limited... a promise for freshman year allows for no time as a sophmore, and no time in the NT when it really counts, and that is somewhat silly. you need to give promises some teeth, along with making them more meaningful.

there are plenty of other tweaks like the above, and like limiting effort per cycle, that can go a long way to level the playing field. generating some more recruits who are decent would also go a long way. however, i don't think a harsh penalty on a team who poaches makes any sense at all, poaching should remain part of the game - there HAS to be a penalty for those who over extend. we have to think through these changes, for other effects they can have, and straight up outlawing poaching would certainly have many undesired and disruptive effects on the game. organic changes are much more appealing, IMO.

Posted by dacj501 on 1/17/2016 1:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mrg1037 on 1/17/2016 12:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

"Finally the recruit commits to his school"

Wrong. Being in the lead before signings means nothing. The recruit commits when he signs.

I have been poached many times. I've done it myself a few times (although I do try to avoid it whenever feasible). When you get poached you have two options:

A. Start complaining in either in the forum, coaches corner, or in a sitemail to the other coach
B. Make a mental note about who that coach is. Build up your own program, or move to a better one. Give the other guy a dose of his own medicine.

there's a third option - Don't take it personally. Learn from it how to be a better recruiter. Get better at the game (without the "dose of his own medicine bullshit")

Bullshit? Poaching is 100% legal, and I don't take it personally. But there's no denying that it really hurts the team you do it to (I'm talking about jumping on a guy right at signings). Because of that I generally avoid poaching outside of special situations. However, I'm not going to extend that courtesy to a guy who's poached my guys in the past.

Another thing. You can't avoid ever getting poached again by "learning from it". If you're at a lower prestige D1 school and you never get poached, you aren't targeting good enough players.

Posted by willowcards2 on 1/17/2016 1:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/17/2016 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

This is just nutty.

When does "poaching" (which there's NO such thing as, in my opinion) start?  The 2nd cycle?  Day 4?  What if a coach can't start recruiting until day 2 or 3?  Are they just supposed to take whatever scraps are left?  If recruiting was a rush to get considered by all the guys you like as quickly as you can then it'd be pretty damn boring.

There's no "dibs" button in HD.  A recruit isn't your until he signs.  You don't want to lose recruits late?  Then pay more attention to schools near you, their prestige, what they're doing during recruiting, and estimate how much money they have left at signings.  If that's too much work then D1 isn't for you.

And this is coming from a guy that just lost two, 5-star recruits at signings in Crum (and nearly a 4-star as well).  I didn't get "poached."  Other teams with more resources saved and utilized those resources better than I did.  Plain and simple.  

Welcome to Division 1 recruiting.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

Says a guy who plays in a big six conference with all the money.....hope you can recruit when the process changes. Neither myself or UCF would of battled for the recruit for three days had any big six conference team would of been involved. It's funny how the coaches for the proçess are the ones who have a re recruiting advantage with bigger budgets

another BS post. its funny how you said exactly 0 to address any points in his post, and by funny, i mean totally not funny.

you say, all snide and PMS-y, hope you can recruit when the process changes! heres a news flash: this guy went through the SAME THING you are going through now, but he SUCCEEDED. let me repeat that, because you and people like you, who prefer to whine and blame those who succeeded, instead of the game constructs, really fail to grasp this all-important point. the vast majority of the folks at a prestige BCS schools today, have had a mid major program under the SAME PROGRAMMING you are playing now. THEY FOUGHT HARD AND WON. YOU WHINE AND FAIL. so you think, under a new system, something will be different? get a grip there buddy.

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/17/2016 2:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by willowcards2 on 1/17/2016 1:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/17/2016 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

This is just nutty.

When does "poaching" (which there's NO such thing as, in my opinion) start?  The 2nd cycle?  Day 4?  What if a coach can't start recruiting until day 2 or 3?  Are they just supposed to take whatever scraps are left?  If recruiting was a rush to get considered by all the guys you like as quickly as you can then it'd be pretty damn boring.

There's no "dibs" button in HD.  A recruit isn't your until he signs.  You don't want to lose recruits late?  Then pay more attention to schools near you, their prestige, what they're doing during recruiting, and estimate how much money they have left at signings.  If that's too much work then D1 isn't for you.

And this is coming from a guy that just lost two, 5-star recruits at signings in Crum (and nearly a 4-star as well).  I didn't get "poached."  Other teams with more resources saved and utilized those resources better than I did.  Plain and simple.  

Welcome to Division 1 recruiting.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

Says a guy who plays in a big six conference with all the money.....hope you can recruit when the process changes. Neither myself or UCF would of battled for the recruit for three days had any big six conference team would of been involved. It's funny how the coaches for the proçess are the ones who have a re recruiting advantage with bigger budgets

another BS post. its funny how you said exactly 0 to address any points in his post, and by funny, i mean totally not funny.

you say, all snide and PMS-y, hope you can recruit when the process changes! heres a news flash: this guy went through the SAME THING you are going through now, but he SUCCEEDED. let me repeat that, because you and people like you, who prefer to whine and blame those who succeeded, instead of the game constructs, really fail to grasp this all-important point. the vast majority of the folks at a prestige BCS schools today, have had a mid major program under the SAME PROGRAMMING you are playing now. THEY FOUGHT HARD AND WON. YOU WHINE AND FAIL. so you think, under a new system, something will be different? get a grip there buddy.

I love you, man

Posted by mrg1037 on 1/17/2016 2:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 1/17/2016 1:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mrg1037 on 1/17/2016 12:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

"Finally the recruit commits to his school"

Wrong. Being in the lead before signings means nothing. The recruit commits when he signs.

I have been poached many times. I've done it myself a few times (although I do try to avoid it whenever feasible). When you get poached you have two options:

A. Start complaining in either in the forum, coaches corner, or in a sitemail to the other coach
B. Make a mental note about who that coach is. Build up your own program, or move to a better one. Give the other guy a dose of his own medicine.

there's a third option - Don't take it personally. Learn from it how to be a better recruiter. Get better at the game (without the "dose of his own medicine bullshit")

Bullshit? Poaching is 100% legal, and I don't take it personally. But there's no denying that it really hurts the team you do it to (I'm talking about jumping on a guy right at signings). Because of that I generally avoid poaching outside of special situations. However, I'm not going to extend that courtesy to a guy who's poached my guys in the past.

Another thing. You can't avoid ever getting poached again by "learning from it". If you're at a lower prestige D1 school and you never get poached, you aren't targeting good enough players.

good, a reasonable post.

i just want to share my perspective on other teams poaching me vs jumping me along the way. i would MUCH MUCH rather get poached. why? then i risk losing exactly 1 recruit. and, maybe i can fight and win. when folks jump in and battle me along the way, it drives me nuts, because even though in many cases they are being idiots and fighting a battle they can't win, it makes me look weak! it puts my entire class at risk!

this is true for me both at A+ BCS schools and mid majors. i coach a mid major now, and the most frustrating part is all the other Bish prestige guys in my range (i started on a d+ like everyone else). they don't poach me - i wish they did. instead they go around getting in a half dozen battles, way over extending themselves, wrecking not only their own recruiting session, but everyone else's. please - poach me instead! if you have a big upper hand on me, so be it, i lose, and i have exactly 0 problem with that. but to battle me for a guy you probably can't even win, making it your 4th concurrent battle, man, that drives me nuts. i mean, i don't hold it against those coaches - they just have no idea how to properly play this game. but it sure is frustrating as hell.