Posted by jsajsa on 1/21/2016 6:03:00 AM (view original):
I don't care enough to argue who is the best but what I just saw is an argument for most accomplished. That's fine and a fair argument but there is a difference between who is the most accomplished and who is the best.

Eh I was trying to go for best not "most accomplished" it's hard not having seen Montana, and only clips of Marino.  But personally I'd take Brady's skills over Manning's.  Does Bree's get into this discussion if we are talking about best skills?  Those are the only 3 from since I've been watching football that I'd consider, Rodgers too.

But in the end they're all really freaking good everyone could have the same top 10 just in different orders.

"But in the end they're all really freaking good everyone could have the same top 10 just in different orders."

100% agreed. Lots of great answers.

Montana was amazing. With the game on the line, he was probably the best. I feel for Manning, I thought he'd have the best career ever but injuries, problems in cold weather and bad luck (when Ravens won the SB), held him back. I hope he finishes his career with a SB win. I truly do. He deserves it. Probably not the most gifted QB, but certainly the best IQ football has seen at this position.

I hate to beat 'Deflategate' to death, but I've never seen this mentioned before.

Surely,noone believes that the Patriots were unlucky enough to get caught the first time they cheated.   The balls were likely  deflated for every home game last season.  The Patriots won 2 home games by 7 or fewer points, plus a 4 point win over Baltimore in the playoffs.  Each of  those games had successful catches that, if dropped, could've led to a loss.  With 2 additional losses the Patriots would've been a wild card team and had to play on the road. They might have still won the Super Bowl but their path would've been much more difficult and the odds much longer

Correction: The Patriots wouldn't have been a wild card team. But with just ONE more loss, they would have dropped from #1 seed to #4 and had to play at Denver in the 2nd round

Posted by alblack56 on 1/21/2016 10:38:00 AM (view original):
I hate to beat 'Deflategate' to death, but I've never seen this mentioned before.

Surely,noone believes that the Patriots were unlucky enough to get caught the first time they cheated.   The balls were likely  deflated for every home game last season.  The Patriots won 2 home games by 7 or fewer points, plus a 4 point win over Baltimore in the playoffs.  Each of  those games had successful catches that, if dropped, could've led to a loss.  With 2 additional losses the Patriots would've been a wild card team and had to play on the road. They might have still won the Super Bowl but their path would've been much more difficult and the odds much longer

I no longer watch football,or sports at all really (interest just kept fading as I got older) but I've watched tons of Brady in the past. He's a great QB, with a great system, and a cheating, scumbag coach, who is great also, in his cheating, scumbaggy way. If I still had a team I loved and the game was on the line there is one QB I would feel 100% happy with, and about a half dozen who I think could get it done 98% or better (in their prime). 

The 100% is Joe Montana. The other guys are Brady, Peyton Manning, Favre, Elway, Troy Aikman, and that dude from the Cardinals that used to bag groceries whatever the hell his name was. After that is a bunch of pros who might or might not get you there, and Marino is in that group (sorry fish fans). Maybe that's my J-E-T-S bias, but Marino had a real knack for not getting it done when it mattered. 

Absent from my list are any of the decent QBs of this decade, as I haven't really watched any of them to make any kind of judgement...

ETA: Chandler? Is that his name?

Posted by zorzii on 1/20/2016 11:01:00 PM (view original):
Montana 273 TDS, 139 INT, 40 551 yds, 92,3 rtg : 14 seasons, 16 in the league (injured twice), SB : 4, 8 pro-bowls, 3 SB MVPS, 2 NFL MVP, 3 times first team.

Brady SB : 4, 3 SB MVP, 2, NFL MVP, 11 PRO-BOWLS, 2 First team all pro, Career rating 96.4 over 480 TDS passes, 15 full seasons...

It's close but Brady has passed Montana.

im not sure, maybe its the radically inconsistent ordering there, maybe its the seemingly random selection of stats from both, instead of a consistent sample... but what is it exactly in there that means brady has passed montana? the only thing i see is TDs, which IMO means little, style of play can be different... brady does have a lot better TD:INT ratio over his career, but thats about the only meaningful thing i am aware of (i guess the 2 runner ups count for something too!)

i think the issue i take is primarily this: context is everything. if one guy, in one situation, has 4 superbowls and is amazing, and another guy in another, at least moderately different situation has 4 superbowls and is amazing, i think you've got a pretty serious uphill climb to fight, to say one is clearly better than the other. what else was going on? how good were the guys around them? the coaches? how tough were the opponents they faced in the post season? was anybody cheating to gain an unfair advantage? if he wasn't cheating so much, belichick would be in the running for best coach ever. how do you account for that? to say that a little better stat line here or there, is without question more important than any of the other potential factors, i just can't buy that on faith.

Posted by jsajsa on 1/21/2016 6:03:00 AM (view original):
I don't care enough to argue who is the best but what I just saw is an argument for most accomplished. That's fine and a fair argument but there is a difference between who is the most accomplished and who is the best.

i guess that's what i am saying too, except that you said it in about 10% of the words :)

Posted by the0nlyis on 1/20/2016 11:10:00 PM (view original):
Brady is the best quarterback ever imo.(and I hate the fact he went to Michigan).

The only QB's that maybe ahead of him are Marino(no postseason success, not entirely his fault), Manning(however not great post season success, and not ending his career that well) and Joe Montana(who I've never actually seen)

Personally I'd take Brady over them when building a team, we've seen him play different types of systems, probably one of the greatest competitors ever, and he makes anyone look good.

Anyone who doesn't like him just likes to call him a cheater, which is bs.

While Brady remains great, it seems fair to devalue his accomplishments to some degree for the multiple instances of misconduct his teams were found guilty of, regardless of his own personal culpability, whatever that may or may not be. 

Wasn't it proved the balls would've deflated that much due to the weather?

I guess no one seems to care Manning was implicated for HGH use after his neck surgeries,sure it never happened, but had Brady had the same thing happen all the  brady haters would call for a public execution, I think it's hilarious the people that label him a cheater because their nfl team sucks.

Posted by the0nlyis on 1/20/2016 12:34:00 PM (view original):
Someone hates brady, sheesh

Yes, and justifiably so, because...

1. He's a cheater on a cheating team.

Two examples...

Patriots cheated to win the first SB they won against the Rams. It should have been stripped and the title vacated, the same way Lance Armstrong isn't a seven time Tour champ anymore. They were lucky to even get there, what with fumbling Brady needing ref help to beat the Raiders in the snow on the fumble that wasn't.

Brady deflated footballs and was finally caught red-handed. The NFL did its job and suspended his lying arse, then the courts let him get off the hook.

2. He is the most over rated player in the history of major pro sports.

No one else gets more credit than Brady, but he is quite simply a slightly above average QB working well within a great system who manages not to screw up when truly great players perform well and make him look better. 

Look what happened when he didn't play for a whole season. The Patriots still went 11-5 and barely missed the playoffs.

When Brady gets hit, his play declines significantly more than that of his peers when they are under pressure. Any NFL QB can do well when they never get touched. Brady struggles MIGHTILY when anyone comes near him.

Early in his career he played behind a phenomenal offensive line and a great defense on the other side CARRIED him to three SB titles (one of which should be stripped, see above).

That great 07 season? Randy. Moss. Period. Moss was the true MVP of that team and of the league, and the talking heads gave Brady all the credit. Even I could have made some of the throws to Moss for TDs that season, and I'm not in the NFL.

BOTTOM LINE: Brady gets more credit for doing less than anyone EVER. Watch - some of you will jump to his defense here and claim he's great, which only serves to emphasize how over rated he is.

Posted by zorzii on 1/20/2016 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Brady is the best ever. I understand he is disliked.

He's the most over rated ever.

He's FAR from the best. There are several better than him right now, and plenty historically.

Posted by skinndogg on 1/20/2016 5:17:00 PM (view original):

Peyton Manning is showing his age, or his injury is effecting him.  And the Patriots legacy will be their cheating, not their SB wins.  Brady is a dump off QB.  He'll dump off 20 times before he takes a shot downfield.

And cheating usally wins.

 

THIS.

Brady's stats are inflated due to 1. great offensive lines in the past 2. great receivers (Randy Moss, Rob Gronkowski, Julian Edelman, Wes Welker...etc) and 3. short routes and let great receivers do their thing.

Posted by zorzii on 1/20/2016 10:39:00 PM (view original):
If he isn't the best of all time, I am thinking who is the best QB of all time. The stats, the Super Bowls... The number of seasons in the game, healthy and dominant. He played for the most dominant team in football, the 16-0 Pats that lost to that miracle catch against the Giants.

I am not a fan... But it will be tough to show me someone has had a better career.

The list of QBs better than Brady (all time) is too long to even waste time counting.

Brady's stats? Inflated as discussed before.

His offensive line, defense, and receivers CARRIED him to the SB wins, one of which shouldn't even count.

Randy Moss made that team undefeated, not Brady.

Brady doesn't crack the top-10 best quarterbacks of my life, (probably not in the top-20). But if you Brady bashers think for a second he's not an excellant QB, over a pretty extended period of time, you really are either blinded by your own foolishness, envy, or just low football IQ.

Just because he has throttled your favorite team over and over (could be any one of the other 30 or so), and continues to do so somehow makes him a bum?
It's like saying Elvis couldn't carry a tune. He may not have been the greatest human being of all time, or had the purest voice ever... but somehow he just kept making your girlfriend squeal and wet her pants....LOL. It appears to me alot of you seem to have had your wife mention Tommy was good looking at one time or another.

It seems really apparent that Al's wife may have mentioned how cute he was more than once.

Posted by bistiza on 1/21/2016 4:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 1/20/2016 10:39:00 PM (view original):
If he isn't the best of all time, I am thinking who is the best QB of all time. The stats, the Super Bowls... The number of seasons in the game, healthy and dominant. He played for the most dominant team in football, the 16-0 Pats that lost to that miracle catch against the Giants.

I am not a fan... But it will be tough to show me someone has had a better career.

The list of QBs better than Brady (all time) is too long to even waste time counting.

Brady's stats? Inflated as discussed before.

His offensive line, defense, and receivers CARRIED him to the SB wins, one of which shouldn't even count.

Randy Moss made that team undefeated, not Brady.

Doesn't matter .. he was there, he was the QB, he got the ring.  He is one of the best QBs of all time.  So is Terry Bradshaw.

Bradshaw was not really that good of a QB (IMHO) .. but he got it done.

I mean, I think Dan Marino and Dan Fouts where both really good passing QBs who were not surrounded with enough talent.  But, Bradshaw and Montana are always though of as better because they 'got it done'.

That's just how it is.