Posted by contrarian23 on 1/22/2016 5:50:00 PM (view original):
"Manning MADE his receivers look great, whereas Brady's receivers made HIM look great."

Of the many ridiculous comments in this thread, this one is by far the most laughable.

It could not be more obvious that the reverse is true.  

The most laughable thing I've ever heard is that you would say what you just said.

All the evidence is against you.

Brady goes down for a season, Cassel steps in and has a career year.

Even when an aged and injured Manning goes down this season, Osweiler does his best, but Manning still comes back and improves the team - even at his age and condition.

Brady never made anyone look great. NEVER. He's been carried by great coaching, most of the time a great O-line, and great receivers at times as well.

Brady has been CARRIED by talented teams which succeeded because he didn't screw them up.

Posted by zorzii on 1/22/2016 7:48:00 PM (view original):
Bistiza

Trent Dilfer = Brady?

Be serious.

I am being serious.

Trent Dilfer won the 2000 SB with the Ravens and everyone pretty much agreed a great defense and talented team carried him to the title and he managed not to screw it up.

Brady has won 4 SBs and made it to two more and it's the same exact story, just on a longer timeframe. He's had great coaching set up a great system, a great O-line, great defense, great receivers, etc. at various points, and he's managed not to screw it up.

Yet all the talking heads over rate him because he was the QB so he gets the credit when ANY DECENT NFL QB should have been able to do what he did with the situation he was in.

Brady gets credit for being great when all he really did was manage not to screw up a team that could have won with ANY DECENT NFL QB who didn't screw them up.

Oh man.  It's been awhile since bistiza really dug in on a topic and defended his point to the death.  I've missed this.

I wanted to make a few points but before I do so I should disclose I'm a pretty big Peyton fan and absolutely despise Brady and the Patriots.

Manning played with 2 HOF WRs for much of his career (Harrison and Wayne) and had a crazy talented Edgerrin James until 2005.  If you're argument is Harrison and Wayne were only good because of Manning I'll remind you Manning probably throws the worst ball of any QB in the NFL.  If those guys couldn't run routes and create a little separation Manning's wounded ducks would have been in trouble.  That said, no one prepared more than Peyton.  I remember watching a show on him where on gameday he'd throw 10 ins, 10 outs, 10 slants, 10 hooks, etc to his WRs to make sure their timing was on point.  

Brady had Moss for 3 seasons and depending on how healthy Gronk stays Moss will be the only HOF skill position WR Brady EVER played with.  Brady had the far superior offensive line-no argument there.  But Bis, you keep saying Brady had "great" WRs....he had 1, for 3 seasons.  Welker was very good but like Edelman they are both system guys...not elite by any means and won't ever be in the HOF discussion.  Same with Branch, Amendola, Gaffney, Troy Brown, Givens, Caldwell, Terry Glenn, Brandon Lloyd, and Dante Stallworth.  Not exactly the who's who of WR talent in the NFL.

Here's a serious question though-if being a game manager (which is what I believe you're saying Brady is) why don't more game managers win Super Bowls?  In the last 23 seasons there have been 2 mediocre QBs to win a SB (Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer).  I'll entertain the idea Brady is the best game manager of all-time but you make it sound being a game manager is so easy and anyone can do it.

Last, you were backwards in your Culpepper analogy.  Moss made Culpepper.  What happened when Randy left and Culpepper had no one to stretch the field?  Look up Culpepper's stats-he was done after Randy left him.  

Here's to hoping Peyton can pull one out tomorrow as nothing would make me happier.

Yeah, we all don't cheer for Brady. I mean, I am tired of the Pats dominance. I seriously hope Manning pulls it off. But to be honest, I think its Denver's D that will.

But you can't say Brady is not the most accomplished... since people don't think accomplished means best ever... He has done stuff nobody has done before and he has been on top of the game for 15 years. Now, if you ask scouts, people who know the game, they'll tell you Brady is the fastest to react and his decision making, because he is so fast to throw the ball or to make a decision, his the best in the league.

Manning is a student of the game. Someone with a football IQ that is scary. But does not have Brady's Tools. Last week against Pittsburgh, he got Lucky there were so many injuries.... and that Denver recovered a key fumble. His throwing looked bad...

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14618069

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/23/2016 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Oh man.  It's been awhile since bistiza really dug in on a topic and defended his point to the death.  I've missed this.

I wanted to make a few points but before I do so I should disclose I'm a pretty big Peyton fan and absolutely despise Brady and the Patriots.

Manning played with 2 HOF WRs for much of his career (Harrison and Wayne) and had a crazy talented Edgerrin James until 2005.  If you're argument is Harrison and Wayne were only good because of Manning I'll remind you Manning probably throws the worst ball of any QB in the NFL.  If those guys couldn't run routes and create a little separation Manning's wounded ducks would have been in trouble.  That said, no one prepared more than Peyton.  I remember watching a show on him where on gameday he'd throw 10 ins, 10 outs, 10 slants, 10 hooks, etc to his WRs to make sure their timing was on point.  

Brady had Moss for 3 seasons and depending on how healthy Gronk stays Moss will be the only HOF skill position WR Brady EVER played with.  Brady had the far superior offensive line-no argument there.  But Bis, you keep saying Brady had "great" WRs....he had 1, for 3 seasons.  Welker was very good but like Edelman they are both system guys...not elite by any means and won't ever be in the HOF discussion.  Same with Branch, Amendola, Gaffney, Troy Brown, Givens, Caldwell, Terry Glenn, Brandon Lloyd, and Dante Stallworth.  Not exactly the who's who of WR talent in the NFL.

Here's a serious question though-if being a game manager (which is what I believe you're saying Brady is) why don't more game managers win Super Bowls?  In the last 23 seasons there have been 2 mediocre QBs to win a SB (Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer).  I'll entertain the idea Brady is the best game manager of all-time but you make it sound being a game manager is so easy and anyone can do it.

Last, you were backwards in your Culpepper analogy.  Moss made Culpepper.  What happened when Randy left and Culpepper had no one to stretch the field?  Look up Culpepper's stats-he was done after Randy left him.  

Here's to hoping Peyton can pull one out tomorrow as nothing would make me happier.

i would throw joe flacco in there, i don't know why he was paid so much, they are way smarter than me, so i must be wrong, but joe flacco has never impressed me at all. he seemed to me the kind of middle cost qb that made sense on a supremely defense and run oriented team. i couldn't believe the contract he got... 

Manning has made his WR's look great. Look at Wayne, when manning left he had a drop in production even when a great quarterback (Luck) stepped in behind him. Granted he has gotten old but in the few seasons after Manning left he went from one of the greatest receivers in the league to irrelevant. Now look at his receivers in Denver, now I didn't pay much attention to them before manning got there but I don't recall even knowing who Demarius Thomas was,, Sanders was a mediocre reviewer in Pittsburg, Juilius Thomas went from one of the best TE's in the league to being almost irrelevant when he left, Erick Decker (while he did have a decent season this year) sucked when he left Denver to go to the Jets. While manning might not have the prettiest ball he delivers it where it needs to go, all he needs is somebody to catch it. In fantasy football I never get a manning receiver because he throws to everybody and you never know who is going to be the target for the day, and to say that they are all great and that he is just surrounded by weapons is just wrong.

Manning has not had great Running backs by any means, you think it's a fluke that Denver has had like 5 "great running backs" appear in the past 3 years or so? The defense just gets so focused on manning that the running backs get overlooked and get wide open holes to run through. If I was a defender in the NFL the one quarterback I wouldn't want to play against is manning, he sees the field so well, he calls his plays from the line and audibles constantly, he knows who to throw to.

You can't look at manning's performance in the past two years or so as his legacy, he is losing arm strength and that is abundantly clear. He has lost any mobility that he had. He is not behind a good offensive line.

If I had to pick the greatest quarterback of this era it would be Manning. Period.

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/23/2016 1:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 1/23/2016 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Oh man.  It's been awhile since bistiza really dug in on a topic and defended his point to the death.  I've missed this.

I wanted to make a few points but before I do so I should disclose I'm a pretty big Peyton fan and absolutely despise Brady and the Patriots.

Manning played with 2 HOF WRs for much of his career (Harrison and Wayne) and had a crazy talented Edgerrin James until 2005.  If you're argument is Harrison and Wayne were only good because of Manning I'll remind you Manning probably throws the worst ball of any QB in the NFL.  If those guys couldn't run routes and create a little separation Manning's wounded ducks would have been in trouble.  That said, no one prepared more than Peyton.  I remember watching a show on him where on gameday he'd throw 10 ins, 10 outs, 10 slants, 10 hooks, etc to his WRs to make sure their timing was on point.  

Brady had Moss for 3 seasons and depending on how healthy Gronk stays Moss will be the only HOF skill position WR Brady EVER played with.  Brady had the far superior offensive line-no argument there.  But Bis, you keep saying Brady had "great" WRs....he had 1, for 3 seasons.  Welker was very good but like Edelman they are both system guys...not elite by any means and won't ever be in the HOF discussion.  Same with Branch, Amendola, Gaffney, Troy Brown, Givens, Caldwell, Terry Glenn, Brandon Lloyd, and Dante Stallworth.  Not exactly the who's who of WR talent in the NFL.

Here's a serious question though-if being a game manager (which is what I believe you're saying Brady is) why don't more game managers win Super Bowls?  In the last 23 seasons there have been 2 mediocre QBs to win a SB (Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer).  I'll entertain the idea Brady is the best game manager of all-time but you make it sound being a game manager is so easy and anyone can do it.

Last, you were backwards in your Culpepper analogy.  Moss made Culpepper.  What happened when Randy left and Culpepper had no one to stretch the field?  Look up Culpepper's stats-he was done after Randy left him.  

Here's to hoping Peyton can pull one out tomorrow as nothing would make me happier.

i would throw joe flacco in there, i don't know why he was paid so much, they are way smarter than me, so i must be wrong, but joe flacco has never impressed me at all. he seemed to me the kind of middle cost qb that made sense on a supremely defense and run oriented team. i couldn't believe the contract he got... 

This is fantastic. If more of my friends played this game they would think so as well. Flacco is insanely over-rated and I've been immensely critical of him. This guy misses wide open receivers time and time again on throws that aren't even close to his target. It drives me nuts when people debate if he belongs in the "elite qb" discussion.

All that said, he somehow found ways to help get his team into the playoffs and win road games there year after year. It just doesn't add up with him.

Posted by the0nlyis on 1/23/2016 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Told you deflategate is nothing but Roger Goodell being a dick to the pats

I wouldn't trust a bunch of deranged scientist who possible belive that climate change is man made. I wouldn't trust a bunch of goverment controlled people to give a honest answer..

yeah, i mean i feel like there is a bunch of press about, flacco is an elite qb, hes underrated, all that. makes me wonder if i am completely insane or something. hes a solid qb for the ravens system, i think he deserves to be starting qb in the nfl, im not saying hes garbage. but to suggest he might be on par even with like an aaron rodgers, i just don't see it. 

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/23/2016 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 1/23/2016 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Told you deflategate is nothing but Roger Goodell being a dick to the pats

I wouldn't trust a bunch of deranged scientist who possible belive that climate change is man made. I wouldn't trust a bunch of goverment controlled people to give a honest answer..

i've read this like 5 times now, trying to decide if you are making a joke with the climate change bit. i really can't figure it out, its bugging me not knowing, please advise...

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/23/2016 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/23/2016 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 1/23/2016 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Told you deflategate is nothing but Roger Goodell being a dick to the pats

I wouldn't trust a bunch of deranged scientist who possible belive that climate change is man made. I wouldn't trust a bunch of goverment controlled people to give a honest answer..

i've read this like 5 times now, trying to decide if you are making a joke with the climate change bit. i really can't figure it out, its bugging me not knowing, please advise...

Scientist are goverment controlled thus they will do whatever the goverment will tell them plus the globalist belive climate change is man made. Also they belive that cimate change created Isis

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/23/2016 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/23/2016 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/23/2016 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 1/23/2016 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Told you deflategate is nothing but Roger Goodell being a dick to the pats

I wouldn't trust a bunch of deranged scientist who possible belive that climate change is man made. I wouldn't trust a bunch of goverment controlled people to give a honest answer..

i've read this like 5 times now, trying to decide if you are making a joke with the climate change bit. i really can't figure it out, its bugging me not knowing, please advise...

Scientist are goverment controlled thus they will do whatever the goverment will tell them plus the globalist belive climate change is man made. Also they belive that cimate change created Isis

I think this clarifies everything. 

Posted by dacj501 on 1/23/2016 3:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/23/2016 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/23/2016 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/23/2016 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 1/23/2016 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Told you deflategate is nothing but Roger Goodell being a dick to the pats

I wouldn't trust a bunch of deranged scientist who possible belive that climate change is man made. I wouldn't trust a bunch of goverment controlled people to give a honest answer..

i've read this like 5 times now, trying to decide if you are making a joke with the climate change bit. i really can't figure it out, its bugging me not knowing, please advise...

Scientist are goverment controlled thus they will do whatever the goverment will tell them plus the globalist belive climate change is man made. Also they belive that cimate change created Isis

I think this clarifies everything. 

man, i don't know, its almost like hes trying to make fun of someone who believes those things he said. i mean, you are definitely right... i just really wish you weren't. his response would be perfect if that was his goal. "also, they believe that climate change created isis". i mean, that is just so perfect. who would just drop that like that. what an awesome post either way.

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/23/2016 3:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 1/23/2016 3:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/23/2016 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/23/2016 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/23/2016 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 1/23/2016 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Told you deflategate is nothing but Roger Goodell being a dick to the pats

I wouldn't trust a bunch of deranged scientist who possible belive that climate change is man made. I wouldn't trust a bunch of goverment controlled people to give a honest answer..

i've read this like 5 times now, trying to decide if you are making a joke with the climate change bit. i really can't figure it out, its bugging me not knowing, please advise...

Scientist are goverment controlled thus they will do whatever the goverment will tell them plus the globalist belive climate change is man made. Also they belive that cimate change created Isis

I think this clarifies everything. 

man, i don't know, its almost like hes trying to make fun of someone who believes those things he said. i mean, you are definitely right... i just really wish you weren't. his response would be perfect if that was his goal. "also, they believe that climate change created isis". i mean, that is just so perfect. who would just drop that like that. what an awesome post either way.

who would just drop that like that. what an awesome post either way.

I listen to the Alex Jones Channel is where I get my news from.