Posted by CoachSpud on 7/31/2016 11:25:00 AM (view original):
"What if the Beta wasn't in a respectable place, there are still tons of issues that need to be worked on, and adjustments to be made. You would end up rolling out a product that everyone is going to have to learn, all while still making changes (assuming development will continue)."

1. Is the ability to learn something new setting the bar too high? Obviously for some on these forums, but over on the beta forums that doesn't seem to be such a foreign idea.
2. What if the beta follows the current direction and works fine, and a little advertising attracts new players? The whiners on these forums will be crowded out -- wouldn't that be delightful -- as the new players, enjoying an intelligent game, take over.

when scientists study small mammals, the ability to learn to click repetively may be some sort of intelligence measure

learning something new is not the problem - dealing with a grunt work clickfest that is less functional than the system it replaces is the problem

much of the new concepts are cool - the execution and the implementation which appears designed to increase manual labor is the issue.

i think they could advertise for miles and people wouldn't stick around because the whole process to locate and scout players is just so needlessly tedious. coming in at D3 for new people, too, holy god, no one will stay. i've been playing D3 for, what, a week now, and i still don't really get how i'm supposed to find good players at that level. at least in D1, it'll be a little more clear (right?).

if this were my first experience in this game, i would have already lost interest and deleted the bookmark. i'm trying to think not just of myself but of someone who has never played a WIS game before coming in. i think they would be bewildered and give up.

it doesn't matter if i love everything else in the update (and there is a lot of good stuff), this is going to be a dealbreaker for many.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 7/30/2016 10:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 7/30/2016 9:55:00 PM (view original):
Where are you guys getting this due date from? Seble hasnt talked about timing to roll out for a long time.

No concrete evidence, just guesswork. selbe stated recently we were very late in the process. That leads one to believe that few beta seasons remain.

A few days ago, Admin put a mysterious "Placeholder" post in the Critical News forum.

Hopefully some sort of schedule announcement is imminent.

Posted by bathtubhippo on 7/31/2016 12:27:00 PM (view original):
i think they could advertise for miles and people wouldn't stick around because the whole process to locate and scout players is just so needlessly tedious. coming in at D3 for new people, too, holy god, no one will stay. i've been playing D3 for, what, a week now, and i still don't really get how i'm supposed to find good players at that level. at least in D1, it'll be a little more clear (right?).

if this were my first experience in this game, i would have already lost interest and deleted the bookmark. i'm trying to think not just of myself but of someone who has never played a WIS game before coming in. i think they would be bewildered and give up.

it doesn't matter if i love everything else in the update (and there is a lot of good stuff), this is going to be a dealbreaker for many.

I think this is an issue many people are overlooking. Pretend for a minute that there has been some advertisement for the nuHD and you're a brand new, never seen the game before, user. Would the new game be too complicated for your general, "average guy off the street"? I believe it would and that is why I believe this update to be a big, big mistake. The learning curve for new users is just going to be way too steep for most new coaches, the frustration level will be through the roof, and my personal opinion is that not many new folks will end up sticking around even if they DO manage to find the game somehow.

The game is fun cause it's tough.

Posted by Benis on 7/31/2016 11:37:00 AM (view original):
Oh good. Spud is still here. Needed a laugh on Sunday morning.

I'm now convinced Spud is a 2nd account for someone who got to DI and got their *** handed to them and could never play with the "big boys". Spudtard blames the system for his inability to measure up with the top coaches and is relying on BETA to even the playing field.

It'll be interesting I think nuHD makes it more advantageos to stay good mid/non major than to rebuild a big 6 team, I'll expect those that couldn't cut it at Big 6 and complain about it will now be those mid/non majors winning their CT and going 27+ wins with a terrible sos and then get creamed in the first round and don't understand why, instead of leaving those teams and getting creamed at big 6

Posted by mullycj on 7/31/2016 1:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 7/31/2016 11:37:00 AM (view original):
Oh good. Spud is still here. Needed a laugh on Sunday morning.

I'm now convinced Spud is a 2nd account for someone who got to DI and got their *** handed to them and could never play with the "big boys". Spudtard blames the system for his inability to measure up with the top coaches and is relying on BETA to even the playing field.

Careful mully. He'll accuse you of making something up and then when called out to back up his bullshit will tuck his tail and run to find a different thread to chime in on.

he doesn't hear background noise though? so mully shouldn't worry.

One guy says "learning something new is not the problem" ... but the next guy says "i've been playing D3 for, what, a week now, and i still don't really get how i'm supposed to find good players at that level." Someone even projects his feelings onto others: "The learning curve for new users is just going to be way too steep for most new coaches." So, yeah, it sure looks like most of the complainers just never learned the new system, don't understand what it can do for them and are so accustomed to whining that it's their knee-jerk response and they drown out the rest of the conversation.

wow, i can see why this all devolves into name-calling with that kind of nonsense response. spud, while essentially calling other people lazy complainers, you're being lazy with your argument, quoting different people out of context. everybody knows what you think. can you try to look at this from anyone else's point of view but your own? YOU like the game. YOU are cool with putting in a lot of time and energy to learn the new system. that's great. i'm happy for you.

unfortunately you are not the sole end user of this game. for this new game to roll out and be a success, it has to retain players, whether current players or new recruits. now, i'm asking you to try some other perspectives. can you see the potential issues of having a scouting system that takes vastly more time and energy for retaining current users? can you envision the problem that might arise from new users being overwhelmed? do you honestly think the scouting system in D3 will retain new users who have no HD or WIS experience?

this game is already likely below a carrying capacity for long-term success. one of seble's goals is to bring in new users through an improved experience. i think in some ways he is accomplishing that, but i don't think they'll stick around to see it, because i think the initial impression will be that this is too complex, too tedious, and too time-consuming.

"...i think the initial impression will be that this is too complex, too tedious, and too time-consuming."
Is for me...and I have SEVERE reservations that lead me to believe it will be initiated with its faults and the HUGE problems ignored just as the small problems were ignored for years in the current game.

Clickfest Dynasty is not the business plan for success

Posted by CoachSpud on 7/31/2016 11:25:00 AM (view original):
"What if the Beta wasn't in a respectable place, there are still tons of issues that need to be worked on, and adjustments to be made. You would end up rolling out a product that everyone is going to have to learn, all while still making changes (assuming development will continue)."

1. Is the ability to learn something new setting the bar too high? Obviously for some on these forums, but over on the beta forums that doesn't seem to be such a foreign idea.
2. What if the beta follows the current direction and works fine, and a little advertising attracts new players? The whiners on these forums will be crowded out -- wouldn't that be delightful -- as the new players, enjoying an intelligent game, take over.

In response to your post.... seriously?

1. I have no issues with learning something new. I was here before the last big update and potential was a significant change that forced everyone to learn the new potential system in regards to recruiting. For new users, it's learning potential and this new recruiting system which is not that straightforward. This is coming from people who already understand the basics. The issue I was addressing is not learning a new game, the issue I addressed was Seble rolling out an incomplete product that not only would have to be learned when rolled out, but then we'd have to continuously adjust due to the changes that still need to be implemented which now further increases the learning time of the new system while using the money we are putting into the game to play to test it out.

2. Notice the key thing you said here was a little advertising? What if the beta was never a thing and WIS just advertised the game more. Instead of driving out a ton of users who have been playing for a long time, the only repercussion would be a benefit in bringing in new players. In addition, Seble could have focused on the issues that users have been complaining about the entire time instead of the beta. You obviously haven't been here long enough to realize the only real advertising increase is going to be FreeHD which will bring in a whole bunch of ghost teams for 1-2 seasons. I'd be surprised if more than 20% of new FreeHD users stuck around anything more than 5 seasons.

Spud, I've generally refrained from comments about your posts as you were just an outlier, and while I still see that as the case, it amazes me how ridiculous some of your responses are, and I can fully understand why you get the responses towards you that you do. I can respect a handful of the supporters of the beta, because I know where their knowledge level lies, but you have proven you know nothing about the current game and are desperate for a change, because you cannot learn the game and be successful.

I've heard bad things about BETA, thus I've got about 5 seasons left and am not really planning to renew after those run out. I have 3 teams...2 that I'm married to...so we'll see.