How can an 'A' prestige D-I team lose to a D-II team when both are considered very high? Who would design a game that runs like that?

Campus visit, multiple home visits, 15 min of PT, plus more than 500 Attention points were given by D-I team, which has had an RPI of 22 or better the past 11 Years!!

Random and chance are one thing, but this is completely unrealistic.

Trying to stay with this "game," but this is getting stupid.

What were the player preferences? When was the D1 effort extended? How many is "multiple" home visits - there's a difference between 3 or 4 and 12-15.

If the guy wants playing time, and the D2 was all-in asap (max visits, promised start and 20-25 minutes) and otherwise a good preference match, that goes a long way explaining why he wasn't easily knocked down, especially if most of that D1 effort came late.

If this guy was actually a high priority for the D1 - if the effort and promises were extended in the first period, and included more than just a couple home visits - I'd agree that it's a little out of whack. That's certainly possible. They need to continue to look at how much value attention points are getting. If the win was due to the guy racking up 1500+ APs, I have a problem with it as well.

Preferences were even for both -- each school had two very good's and 1 neutral. D-I effort began during the first session, early on 2nd day of signings. Home visits totaled 5. ...

Are you saying the longer the visits are in there, the more they count? I was told to the contrary in a previous interaction, but that wouldn't be the first time I was given lousy information.

Total Attention Points from my D-I team was 520.

Posted by beanorocks20 on 11/18/2016 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Preferences were even for both -- each school had two very good's and 1 neutral. D-I effort began during the first session, early on 2nd day of signings. Home visits totaled 5. ...

Are you saying the longer the visits are in there, the more they count? I was told to the contrary in a previous interaction, but that wouldn't be the first time I was given lousy information.

Total Attention Points from my D-I team was 520.

Not the visits, but the start/minutes. They do rack up extra credit effort, so it pays to offer them asap.

5 isn't a lot of visits. That's on the cusp of what I think is reasonable to knock down an all-in D2, in terms of resource allocation, if everything else is the same. I don't love the system of resource allocation to begin with, but that's the system we have.

Posted by beanorocks20 on 11/18/2016 2:03:00 PM (view original):
How can an 'A' prestige D-I team lose to a D-II team when both are considered very high? Who would design a game that runs like that?

Campus visit, multiple home visits, 15 min of PT, plus more than 500 Attention points were given by D-I team, which has had an RPI of 22 or better the past 11 Years!!

Random and chance are one thing, but this is completely unrealistic.

Trying to stay with this "game," but this is getting stupid.

while I tend to like the opportunity and parity in HD3, I am inclined to say that if an A-prestige D1 team is putting in visits and promising PT, it IS pretty unrealistic that a player would choose a D2 team under any circumstances. what kid chooses D2 over guaranteed PT in the SEC?

No. When the visits occur do not matter.

Thank you for the rationalization, bathtubhippo!

Posted by bathtubhippo on 11/18/2016 2:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by beanorocks20 on 11/18/2016 2:03:00 PM (view original):
How can an 'A' prestige D-I team lose to a D-II team when both are considered very high? Who would design a game that runs like that?

Campus visit, multiple home visits, 15 min of PT, plus more than 500 Attention points were given by D-I team, which has had an RPI of 22 or better the past 11 Years!!

Random and chance are one thing, but this is completely unrealistic.

Trying to stay with this "game," but this is getting stupid.

while I tend to like the opportunity and parity in HD3, I am inclined to say that if an A-prestige D1 team is putting in visits and promising PT, it IS pretty unrealistic that a player would choose a D2 team under any circumstances. what kid chooses D2 over guaranteed PT in the SEC?

Clearly, if effort is equal, or near equal, I think we all agree the D1 should hold the D2 out of signing range. But if we assume the D2 was all-in early, the effort wasn't really equal, or anywhere near. Some think a scholarship from a D1 should be enough to keep a D2 out of signing range, but I think there should also be some amount of effort. Is 5 HVs and a CV enough? As I said, I think that's borderline for my tastes. And since they were both very high, the system seems to agree with me (assuming the D2 was all-in, of course).

Now if the D2 was not all-in, say that coach matched the promised minutes, and put in 10-12 HVs instead of the max, and therefore the difference is primarily in the AP gap, then I definitely agree those attention points are weighted too much. I think maybe the best thing the game can do regarding attention points is to start diminishing returns once effort is unlocked, and negative returns for bad preference matches.

No way in hell a player would ever realistically choose a dII school over a dI if he was offered playing time in the SEC. unless the guy was dumb as rocks. Would make absolutely no sense in the real world. Can anyone find a real world example even?

Would we know about him as he disappeared into DII obscurity?

An 18 y/o mind is hard to predict. I think we all can agree on that.

Posted by bmillerua on 11/18/2016 2:48:00 PM (view original):
No way in hell a player would ever realistically choose a dII school over a dI if he was offered playing time in the SEC. unless the guy was dumb as rocks. Would make absolutely no sense in the real world. Can anyone find a real world example even?

Top 100 guys who want to play professionally, you're probably right. But I do personally know guys who have turned down D1 scholarships for D2 schools. They're D1 now, but South Dakota State used to beat out Minnesota and Iowa and Nebraska for players on occasion, even before they moved up. If a guy is making a calculation knowing that this is probably the last 4 years he gets to play organized basketball at a competitive level, he may look at things outside of how often his team plays on TV, like how big of a piece he is going to play. And that gets into how big of a priority was he for these teams?

From a gameplay perspective, the way a D1 can tell if they're up against a lower division school that is all-in is if you offer a scholarship, and the other team doesn't drop. That tells you they've already invested considerable resources, and you'll have to fight, at least a little, for the kid.

I saw this post when it first went up and thought "here we go again!"

beanorocks- for some perspective, we've recently all argued about whether it makes sense for a A prestige D1 school to lose to a D3 school... D3!!

So yeah, there are basically two camps of people replying to these situations I think. Either you think it makes no sense and flies in the face of trying to make a realistic game or you think that the D1 school should have tried harder to get him.

Either way, we're going to be arguing about this for as long as this game exists.

Posted by beanorocks20 on 11/18/2016 2:03:00 PM (view original):
How can an 'A' prestige D-I team lose to a D-II team when both are considered very high? Who would design a game that runs like that?

Campus visit, multiple home visits, 15 min of PT, plus more than 500 Attention points were given by D-I team, which has had an RPI of 22 or better the past 11 Years!!

Random and chance are one thing, but this is completely unrealistic.

Trying to stay with this "game," but this is getting stupid.

If both are "very high" division is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is High / Very High.

If the D-2 team is Very HIgh .. then he has put in MUCH more effort than the D-1 team. Because the D-1 team has a prestige advantage on every action.

This would mean that the D2 team did CV, double the HVs (probably all 20), a start, 25 mins of playing time, etc.

Its all about math .. but the d2 team had to put in much more.

Posted by pkoopman on 11/18/2016 3:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bmillerua on 11/18/2016 2:48:00 PM (view original):
No way in hell a player would ever realistically choose a dII school over a dI if he was offered playing time in the SEC. unless the guy was dumb as rocks. Would make absolutely no sense in the real world. Can anyone find a real world example even?

Top 100 guys who want to play professionally, you're probably right. But I do personally know guys who have turned down D1 scholarships for D2 schools. They're D1 now, but South Dakota State used to beat out Minnesota and Iowa and Nebraska for players on occasion, even before they moved up. If a guy is making a calculation knowing that this is probably the last 4 years he gets to play organized basketball at a competitive level, he may look at things outside of how often his team plays on TV, like how big of a piece he is going to play. And that gets into how big of a priority was he for these teams?

From a gameplay perspective, the way a D1 can tell if they're up against a lower division school that is all-in is if you offer a scholarship, and the other team doesn't drop. That tells you they've already invested considerable resources, and you'll have to fight, at least a little, for the kid.

Please show a player that picked SDSU over Iowa? Being a lifelong Hawkeye I don't ever remember that happening