Posted by Jtpsops on 1/9/2014 11:30:00 PM (view original):
And I find it funny Mike is always right on guys like Ripken and Maddux for their durability, screaming 'roids. How about Mr. Jeter? He was pretty durable at a tough position for years and now has completely broken down. On the DL 4 times or so in the last year and a half. And he's playing for a team with a culture of juicers. I'd say he's one of the most likely current players to be on something.

Posted by rsp777 on 1/5/2014 1:40:00 AM (view original):
Bullshit Worms. It's the HALL OF ******* FAME, not the HALL OF REALLY ******* GOOD. Rice, Blyleven, Dawson, etc. have watered this **** down SO far that it's just sad. Neither of those three in particular deserve a SNIFF of the HOF. And Bagwell, Raines, Morris, Trammell, Lee Smith, Edgar Martinez, McGriff, Kent, Schilling, Mussina and Lofton CERTAINLY are in the same category, I mean, WTF??? Where is the STANDARD??? Certainly all of those guys were very good ballplayers in their time, but NONE of them deserve HOF. NOT ONE OF THEM. The HOF is for the BEST of the BEST. And NOT ONE of those guys meets that criteria. That's why it's SO ******* PATHETIC that Blyleven, Rice and Dawson got in in particular. They just don't ******* belong there. You can argue it until you turn purple for all I care, those guys DO NOT BELONG IN THE HALL OF FAME. And neither do any of these "borderline" ******* that you all keep talking about. I'd rather see cheating ***** like Bonds, Clemens and McGwire get in because they AT LEAST have the historical stats to back it up. Yeah, they were probably cheaters, but so was Ruth, so was Cobb, so was Mays, so was Perry and the list goes on and on. At least give it to those who got it done on the field, regardless of their "suspicion: of cheating. EVERYONE in the HISTORY of baseball cheated somehow, but for the HOF to exclude the best of the best, like Rose, Bonds, McGwire and Clemens, is just a joke when you're letting in Jim ******* Rice and Bert ******* Blyleven. The HOF voting has been nothing short of a JOKE for years, and, to tell you the truth, I really don't ******* care anymore about what a bunch of "writers"" have to say about it. These ***** are arrogant dickwads who never even swung a bat. Their opinion is for **** because it's ******* JADED AS ALL GET OUT. Based on homerism and personal opinion. The HOF really, means NOTHING anymore because of this. I don't even know why I go on these rants. It's not gonna change, ever. And really, until PETE ROSE IS IN THE HOF there is really nothing left to talk about. If a piece of human **** like Ty Cobb is in the HOF then you tell me how Rose doesn't belong. The HOF is FILLED with guys who made their careers before black players were even allowed to PLAY. It's a ******* JOKE. Daniel Tosh says it best.......If you don't know what he said I suggest you look it the **** up. Because he's right. About our founding "fathers" and about baseball history. **** the HOF. It's a JOKE.......

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/9/2014 11:22:00 PM (view original):
I still don't understand why it's necessary to label guys. Technically any player in baseball history could have been cheating. Everyone now could still be cheating (since PEDs are still in the game). By your logic, it's fair to say no one should be in the hall or ever should be again because they all COULD have cheated. It's ridiculous.

FWIW, I HATE Bonds and Clemens, but I'd vote for them. But to say that Clemens and Maddux should be judged the same is just asinine.

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/9/2014 11:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/9/2014 11:30:00 PM (view original):
And I find it funny Mike is always right on guys like Ripken and Maddux for their durability, screaming 'roids. How about Mr. Jeter? He was pretty durable at a tough position for years and now has completely broken down. On the DL 4 times or so in the last year and a half. And he's playing for a team with a culture of juicers. I'd say he's one of the most likely current players to be on something.

He just said a day or 2 ago that he thought Jeter had used...

Mike doesn't care about steroids.

Posted by bagchucker on 1/10/2014 1:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 1/5/2014 1:40:00 AM (view original):
Bullshit Worms. It's the HALL OF ******* FAME, not the HALL OF REALLY ******* GOOD. Rice, Blyleven, Dawson, etc. have watered this **** down SO far that it's just sad. Neither of those three in particular deserve a SNIFF of the HOF. And Bagwell, Raines, Morris, Trammell, Lee Smith, Edgar Martinez, McGriff, Kent, Schilling, Mussina and Lofton CERTAINLY are in the same category, I mean, WTF??? Where is the STANDARD??? Certainly all of those guys were very good ballplayers in their time, but NONE of them deserve HOF. NOT ONE OF THEM. The HOF is for the BEST of the BEST. And NOT ONE of those guys meets that criteria. That's why it's SO ******* PATHETIC that Blyleven, Rice and Dawson got in in particular. They just don't ******* belong there. You can argue it until you turn purple for all I care, those guys DO NOT BELONG IN THE HALL OF FAME. And neither do any of these "borderline" ******* that you all keep talking about. I'd rather see cheating ***** like Bonds, Clemens and McGwire get in because they AT LEAST have the historical stats to back it up. Yeah, they were probably cheaters, but so was Ruth, so was Cobb, so was Mays, so was Perry and the list goes on and on. At least give it to those who got it done on the field, regardless of their "suspicion: of cheating. EVERYONE in the HISTORY of baseball cheated somehow, but for the HOF to exclude the best of the best, like Rose, Bonds, McGwire and Clemens, is just a joke when you're letting in Jim ******* Rice and Bert ******* Blyleven. The HOF voting has been nothing short of a JOKE for years, and, to tell you the truth, I really don't ******* care anymore about what a bunch of "writers"" have to say about it. These ***** are arrogant dickwads who never even swung a bat. Their opinion is for **** because it's ******* JADED AS ALL GET OUT. Based on homerism and personal opinion. The HOF really, means NOTHING anymore because of this. I don't even know why I go on these rants. It's not gonna change, ever. And really, until PETE ROSE IS IN THE HOF there is really nothing left to talk about. If a piece of human **** like Ty Cobb is in the HOF then you tell me how Rose doesn't belong. The HOF is FILLED with guys who made their careers before black players were even allowed to PLAY. It's a ******* JOKE. Daniel Tosh says it best.......If you don't know what he said I suggest you look it the **** up. Because he's right. About our founding "fathers" and about baseball history. **** the HOF. It's a JOKE.......

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RSP!

Posted by mfahie on 1/11/2014 1:31:00 AM (view original):
I'm saying 1 and 2 contradict each other, yet they are both used as evidence of PED use.

There's sort of a career peak/valley we've come to expect.   Anyone from the late 1980s to the early 2000s who doesn't follow it is suspect .

Break in, 1-3 years of "learning the game"
4-6 peak years
Slow but steady decline with occassional missed games

Obviously, someone can have an up/down year when they shouldn't but that's how baseball has worked for a 100 years.   We should probably adjust how we look at things since we've made so much progress with regards to training, nutrition and medicine, which would allow player to maintain longer but PED use got in the way. 

Frank Thomas is a good example.
Half a season of "learning".
Beast mode for 7 seasons beginning at 23.
2 human seasons
Another big one at 32
Injury season
Human season at 34
Blows up again at 35
2 injury seasons and looks like he's on his way out of the game
Signs a small contract and blows up again at 38
Average season, injury season and retires

The seasons at 35 and especially 38 look suspect to me.   And I could even look past the one at 35 as "normal". 

BTW, Thomas made over 18m after his big season at age 38.   Why wouldn't someone go to Germany to get their "blood spun" or whatever the hell they call it in order to get one more big payday?