Posted by tecwrg on 9/8/2016 9:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by sjpoker on 9/8/2016 8:54:00 AM (view original):
You agreed with Angry BL. You know he has a chub right now right?
When I said that Donaldson is clearly the better player, I meant that he's literally the better player. Guys like BL point to WAR and say that tells you that one player is better than another player. WAR only measures that - according to subjective measure - one player has performed better than another player. But again, I don't think WAR is even close to being an absolute. Its flawed. The fact that there are multiple WARs out there kinda underlines that.
I'd argue that Donaldson is a more complete player and getting better. He is (maybe slightly) better at the plate, and (much) better with the glove. As to baserunning - his baserunning skills aren't apparent using stats alone, because he attempts a lot less of them. But he's like 20 out of 20 the last 4 seasons. Could he steal 20 in a season? I'd think so. He's not slow. He's a middle order bat with elite power. And he's got guys in the lineup who follow him that can drive him in. You won't see him steal that much. But Altuve is clearly a better basestealer because he's - probably - the best in the game. But I don't think Donaldson is a dud either.
Altuve is performing at his maximum. He's a very good hitter, an average fielder at best, and an elite baserunner. I don't see how he will improve at bat, on the basepaths, or in the field.
So they are are arguably equal at the plate, Donaldson has the clear advantage in the field, and Altuve has a an advantage on the basepaths.
The question I have is - is it better to have a Donaldson out there or an Altuve? I'll take a top bat/top glove guy over a top bat/average glove guy regardless of added SB value. Especially if both are in the AL. Maybe not in 1986. But today, yes.
Why are you thinking about BL's *****?
Anyways, I think you're selling Altuve short (no pun intended . . . well, maybe a little. Oops, there I go again!).
Donaldson only started playing full time at age 27. Altuve already has 3,000+ more PA's at age 26 than Donaldson had at age 26. Altuve is just approaching his prime years and clearly getting better, while Donaldson is already in his prime at age 30. For all we know, Donaldson could be hitting his plateau, while it's not unreasonable to think that Altuve can continue to improve. There's a lot more potential upside with Altuve than Donaldson in the years to come.
One other thing I missed earlier. Even though Donaldson doesn't have an egregiously bad strikeout rate, he does strike out at twice the rate that Altuve does. Despite the Argue Monkey's assertion that strikeouts are just another kind of out, I'll take the guy who puts the ball in play more often than the guy who doesn't, especially if their overall production is similar. The good things that are happening on those additional balls in play aren't showing up in the stats, but anybody who understands baseball (that excludes the Argue Monkey) knows that they're there.
Agreed that Ks are generally more egregious than walks, but as Dahs pointed out, more hits hasn't really increased production. Donaldsons K rate - like you said - is pretty acceptable for his type of hitter.
My assertion that Donaldson is improving is that his walk rate has increased (and based on the progression, it appears to not be an aberration), his Ks are down (same thing, seems to be a true adjustment), and his Line Drive and Fly Ball rates are increasing as well as his Hard Hit %.) Looks as though he has gradually become more patient, started looking for his pitches, and when he gets them, he's hammering them.
Altuve has seen an increase in walk rate and a regression in K rate this season. He is seeing an increase in power based on Hard Hit % and Line Drive % too.
So I guess I can't say Altuve has indeed plateaued...