Posted by tecwrg on 8/26/2013 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by winner77 on 8/26/2013 6:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:36:00 PM (view original):
Rickey Henderson was NOT a stud CF. 

He made too many errors in 1985, I agree with that.  BUT he also led the league in outfield range.  That says something, no?

It could say that the Yankees had a fly-ball pitching staff.

More fly-balls --> more opportunities for Rickey.

Rickey was top ten in range factor three times in his career, that's in a lot of years.

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:33:00 PM (view original):
Rickey Henderson was not a very good CF.

And Kenny Lofton deserves the same consideration for the HOF as players like Bernie Williams.   Take a look, say "They had a good BL career.  They should be proud" and move on to someone who's actually worthy.

Like Ichiro????

Lofton was a black guy playing CF for 20 teams.  Ichiro was a rock star.   Hall of FAME.

Probably explains why Mattingly was given an MVP he didn't deserve. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:33:00 PM (view original):
Rickey Henderson was not a very good CF.

And Kenny Lofton deserves the same consideration for the HOF as players like Bernie Williams.   Take a look, say "They had a good BL career.  They should be proud" and move on to someone who's actually worthy.

Like Ichiro????

Lofton was a black guy playing CF for 20 teams.  Ichiro was a rock star.   Hall of FAME.

Rickey was a black guy playing outfield for a lot of teams, too....but he was also a ROCK STAR

the only slugger that i can find who can claim some worth for the experimentation was the original and first on the long list since then. when willie mays was given the leadoff spot it only showed what might happen that wasn't expected. there was the natural drop-off in batting average again as on most occasions willie mays becomes exponentially dangerous with runners on base. his batting average fell according to one view but actually the pitchers rate of success grew. this was not without its successes though and those would translate to the next slugging leadoff hitter bobby bonds. the managers who tried making lineups to minimize pitcher success were not doing so because of numbers. pitch counts were already en vogue during those eras. andre dawson had the power and rbi numbers and the fame to influence voters. rickey was sporadically inconsistent and played havoc with sportsbooks setting betting lines. and theres much more that has rickey henderson right where he belongs even if its not where u claim he belongs.

If today's MVP voting logic were used, the 1985 MVP would have been George Brett anyway.  Yankees did not make the playoffs, but the Royals did.

Posted by winner77 on 8/26/2013 6:51:00 PM (view original):
If today's MVP voting logic were used, the 1985 MVP would have been George Brett anyway.  Yankees did not make the playoffs, but the Royals did.

Oh burn

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 6:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by winner77 on 8/26/2013 6:51:00 PM (view original):
If today's MVP voting logic were used, the 1985 MVP would have been George Brett anyway.  Yankees did not make the playoffs, but the Royals did.

Oh burn

Tis true, tis true.  Rickey and Mattingly woulda been out in the cold, and Georgie woulda walked away with MVP number 2.

True. Mattingly didn't get his team to the playoffs like a true MVP would have.

did steve carlton establish your unmoveable point of view? that player that year hit more meaningful homeruns than did rickey henderson. kirk gibson had an mvp year even though dodger pitching is what is credited numbers wise for their playoff appearance. your expectations are your problems here. bringing a knife to a gunfight is what u r doing with each post. your stabs in the dark at discrediting mattingly miss their mark terribly. mattingly manages a major league team far differently than u would be capable of. jack clark and seven leadoff hitters does nothing but show clarks ability to be the power of that team. those base runners were there to make jack clark look good. not the other way around making the prowess of running a more emphatic part of the game compared to what one lone slugger in a lineup can produce. u would flunk basic college studies about numbers and their effects. the past numbers are over and done with. your views have one destination that has alot of traffic. trash is trash.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 6:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:33:00 PM (view original):
Rickey Henderson was not a very good CF.

And Kenny Lofton deserves the same consideration for the HOF as players like Bernie Williams.   Take a look, say "They had a good BL career.  They should be proud" and move on to someone who's actually worthy.

Like Ichiro????

Lofton was a black guy playing CF for 20 teams.  Ichiro was a rock star.   Hall of FAME.

Probably explains why Mattingly was given an MVP he didn't deserve. 

Dumbest.  Post.  Ever.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 7:01:00 PM (view original):
True. Mattingly didn't get his team to the playoffs like a true MVP would have.

it is possible for one guy to make both of the dumbest posts in history ever.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 7:01:00 PM (view original):
True. Mattingly didn't get his team to the playoffs like a true MVP would have.

Did 1985 Rickey Henderson get his team to the playoffs?  I guess he wasn't a "true MVP" either.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 6:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2013 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2013 6:33:00 PM (view original):
Rickey Henderson was not a very good CF.

And Kenny Lofton deserves the same consideration for the HOF as players like Bernie Williams.   Take a look, say "They had a good BL career.  They should be proud" and move on to someone who's actually worthy.

Like Ichiro????

Lofton was a black guy playing CF for 20 teams.  Ichiro was a rock star.   Hall of FAME.

Probably explains why Mattingly was given an MVP he didn't deserve. 

Yeah. There was an entire baseball mad country waking up at 3 AM to watch Mattingly play.

What?   That didn't happen with Mattingly?  Who knew?

while centerfielders have become the subject here ripping off john fogertys lyrical approach to that particular position then my view in direct opposition tells fogerty and all the other pretenders that mickey mantle is eternally untouchable with no need for that replacement aspect of your numbers. mantle switch hit like no other in history. end of argument. in other words no one makes it into the hall of fame for the position they were associated with defensively. the hall is the bat. vin scully is the translator. beyond that u would have to actually see these players perform. give me mickey mantle and the power to revoke liquor licenses. mick and his bat did some serious damage to the pitcher success rate. even on a bad day.

suzuki who is the theme of this thread correct?