Clemens Topic

Pretty sure OJ is in jail.

As I said, we've demanded that accused PED users deny charges, sue people who make the claim, simply pretty much stand on the mountain top and scream "I DIDN'T DO IT!!!!"

Clemens has done that.   Not good enough for the fickle public. 
6/20/2012 9:42 AM
OJ in for something different, obviously.

Common sense tells you Clemens was a roider for reasons discussed already.  Is there a chance he didn't? Sure.  Just like there's a chance OJ didn't kill his wife and there's a chance the Mets make the playoffs this year.
6/20/2012 10:14 AM
I also don't think many people are surprised Clemens was acquitted of perjury.  From what I understand (which isn't that much), it's very, very difficult to be convincted of perjury.  One witness has credibility issues, and another changed his mind.  If Pettitte said what he originally said about Clemens, I bet you he's convincted of at least one count.
6/20/2012 10:18 AM
The "evidence" that Clemens did 'roids is circumstantial.  

It's universally agreed that Jeter is one of the "clean" players(I've discussed my doubts before but virtually no one agrees with me).   He's been very public in saying "No, everyone was not on 'roids."    Nonetheless, he was given up for dead last June.   He came back after "adjusting his swing" and has been as good as ever.   He's having his best year thus far in a couple of seasons(he inexplicably went off in 2009.(On 'roids then?).      Is he 'roiding now at 38?  

What about Pujols?  Looked like a Little Leaguer a month ago?   Adam Dunn couldn't play a lick last season.   AJ Burnett looks like a major league pitcher again.   Does everyone who falls off and returns to form take 'roids?
6/20/2012 10:38 AM
Circumstantial evidence doesnt mean the evidence is incorrect.  Clemens was slowly starting to get worse from age 30-33, like many pitchers do, and then he became the best pitcher in baseball once he met a man who claims he gave Clemens steriods.  There are also 2 other people who claim this man gave Clemens steriods (one is/was friends with Clemens and changed his mind). And this is a 4 year period where Clemens was slowly getting worse, not a couple months to a year like the other guys you're mentioning.  Also, Jeter was hot for a little bit but he's fallen off considerably since then.  

Believe what you want to.  Most people look at the evidence and believe he was a roider.

PS - I also think it's humorous that you think Jeter may be a roider but that Clemens was not.
6/20/2012 11:04 AM
Never said Clemens wasn't a 'roider.  

Just saying he jumped thru every hoop we wanted him to in order to prove he wasn't.    Now it's "Bah, I know he's a 'roider anyway.  I know it."

WTF does a guy in that era have to do to prove he wasn't?
6/20/2012 11:07 AM
Not have witnesses claim you took steriods is one way.
6/20/2012 11:19 AM
One recanted his statement.  The other isn't even the least bit credible.

If I said "I saw burnsy rape a 12 year old", does that mean you should always have that tag around your neck?
6/20/2012 11:30 AM
Let's keep in mind that Clemens didn't prove his innocence, he was found not guilty of perjury and obstruction charges.  I think he should be in the Hall of Fame, steroids or not, but we shouldn't pretend that this means he's a clean player.
6/20/2012 11:34 AM
We are never, ever, going to know a complete list of who used what performance enhancing drugs.  IMHO - usage was widespread and was not limited to a handful of superstars.  Marginal players were made good, good ones great and great ones turned into legends.  Those legends caught turned into pumpkins.

I really don't care about it anymore, time to move on.  I would put them in the HOF.  They were still the best of their era, the steroid era, and most people were probably using something some of the time anyway.
6/20/2012 11:41 AM
Let's just say he was proven "not guilty" of lying about steroid use.   Again, he's done everything we've demanded accused PED users do.   Now, since our suspicions weren't confirmed, it's just not enough.
6/20/2012 11:43 AM
Clemens was not proven anything.  The prosecutor failed to prove his case.
6/20/2012 11:44 AM
Word it however you like.   Verdict was not guilty of lying to Congress about steroid use.
6/20/2012 11:46 AM
Sure, that's true.  But found not guilty of lying is not the same as proven innocent of steroid use.
6/20/2012 11:51 AM
No one claimed it was.    Read the thread then comment again.   Contain your dumbassery to one thread or I'll do it for you.
6/20/2012 11:57 AM
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