Are you reading what you write? They were picked to finish last in a tough division and finished second. They overcame a much tougher schedule than the As. The fact that some had the Mariners finished last in the West while everyone had the Os last in the East means expectations were lower for the Os. Read the other thread on this - Vegas, SI, etc had the Os to finish with fewer wins than the As.

Buck wins and it won't be close.

I'd say the AL West was the tougher division this year.  At least the Orioles had the Blue Jays and Red Sox to beat up on.  The A's had two powerhouses in their division, and the Mariners were hanging around .500 for a while.

The Orioles were a great story this year, but they also barely outscored their opponents.  A lot of their success was due to luck.  Showalter will probably still win MOY, but my vote would go to Melvin.

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/19/2012 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Rodney winning CPOY is an absolute joke

I thought for sure one of the White Sox players would get it: Rios, Dunn, or Peavy

Rodney should get the congratulations on figuring out how to pitch award!

Posted by Got_Worms on 10/20/2012 12:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/19/2012 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Rodney winning CPOY is an absolute joke

I thought for sure one of the White Sox players would get it: Rios, Dunn, or Peavy

Not sure I give an award to hitter barely above .200 that struck out 222 times. Might have had the record had he not sat in the last game. Rios for sure..

Posted by jm1618 on 10/20/2012 12:01:00 AM (view original):
I'd say the AL West was the tougher division this year.  At least the Orioles had the Blue Jays and Red Sox to beat up on.  The A's had two powerhouses in their division, and the Mariners were hanging around .500 for a while.

The Orioles were a great story this year, but they also barely outscored their opponents.  A lot of their success was due to luck.  Showalter will probably still win MOY, but my vote would go to Melvin.

You're looking at it after the fact though. No one had any idea that the Jays and Sox would suck so much when the season started - and the O's destroyed the Sox, contributing to their terrible record.

We're not picking pre-season Manager of the Year, why should you not look at it after the fact?  The question is who actually contributed more to their team's winning record this year, Showalter or Melvin?  Who got more wins out of less to work with?  I think Melvin did.

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/20/2012 9:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jm1618 on 10/20/2012 12:01:00 AM (view original):
I'd say the AL West was the tougher division this year.  At least the Orioles had the Blue Jays and Red Sox to beat up on.  The A's had two powerhouses in their division, and the Mariners were hanging around .500 for a while.

The Orioles were a great story this year, but they also barely outscored their opponents.  A lot of their success was due to luck.  Showalter will probably still win MOY, but my vote would go to Melvin.

You're looking at it after the fact though. No one had any idea that the Jays and Sox would suck so much when the season started - and the O's destroyed the Sox, contributing to their terrible record.

So the Orioles win the Comeback Team of the Year Award.  But I think Melvin actually had the bigger role in his team's success.

I don't. I guess it depends how much credit you give Duquette for the O's roster moves, but the Orioles used more players than any other team in the majors this year as far as I know. That is maximizing on your available resources. All I've heard all year when it comes to the Orioles is "wow, Buck has pushed all the right buttons - it's amazing what he's done with that team."

The A's had rookies and young players, but talent. It was just a question of how they'd perform. No one had any faith in the pitching staff the O's were trotting out there. I'm sure if you asked managers around the league at the beginning of the season if they'd rather have the A's starting pitching options or the Orioles, all would have chosen the A's. Factor in that the A's play 81 games in one of the league's most beneficial parks for pitchers and the O's play in a hitter's park, the production of the O's staff becomes even more impressive.

Buck did more with what was considered less at the start of the season, and he got the same results as the A's with what I still believe was a tougher schedule.

Melvin did a hell of a job, but I don't know how anyone can say he did the better job managing his team.

I also think that a lot of the O's success came down to luck.  They scored 712 runs and allowed 705.  You could say that Showalter's managerial genius was responsible, but it's not like he gets to choose when his team scores.

I also give Melvin extra points because the A's won their division.

But Showalter was amazing too.  I think both managers are more deserving than anyone in the NL.

I don't put any stock in the run differential. As you said, perhaps Showalter made the bigger difference because his team was in many close games and he had a smaller margin for error to make sure his team got those wins.

I realize I'm an O's fan, but it's really hard for me (looking at preseason predictions, schedules and rosters/talent) to see how Melvin had more to do with his team's success than Showalter.

I think the A's success was more to do with their GM. They made a bunch of moves after they started off poorly. 

I don't understand why you think the O's had a harder schedule.  Look at the standings, the West was a tougher division.  You said the Red Sox were bad in part because the O's played so well against them (13-5), but the A's were 8-1 against the Red Sox.

You don't determine strength of schedule after the fact. Does Vegas change their odds and say "sorry everyone, but when we laid such long odds on the Os, we didn't realize Boston and TO would suck so much. We're gonna change that now."

When the schedule was made, the Os had a tougher one than the As. I can find you many who agree on that fact.

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/21/2012 1:30:00 AM (view original):
You don't determine strength of schedule after the fact. Does Vegas change their odds and say "sorry everyone, but when we laid such long odds on the Os, we didn't realize Boston and TO would suck so much. We're gonna change that now."

When the schedule was made, the Os had a tougher one than the As. I can find you many who agree on that fact.

Well, yeah - you do. They determine SOS in football, on what the team did the season as it goes along. When you look at the draft and see two team with the same record, SOS from the current season plays a role. Baseball is no different. I mean they don't use SOS as a tiebreaker but its the same premise.