Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
"any of that back story bullshit" - im assuming you mean the whole "pitching to the score, managing games, etc." I know.  You've said that.  I think you're wrong.  

You've also given no evidence that says I'm wrong.  And I've seen, by watching games, pitchers that dial it up to 95 in big situations where they need outs...you know, up 2-1 with men on in late innings...and dial it back when they're up 7-1 in the 4th.  You can't tell me I didn't see that.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
"any of that back story bullshit" - im assuming you mean the whole "pitching to the score, managing games, etc." I know.  You've said that.  I think you're wrong.  

You've also given no evidence that says I'm wrong.  And I've seen, by watching games, pitchers that dial it up to 95 in big situations where they need outs...you know, up 2-1 with men on in late innings...and dial it back when they're up 7-1 in the 4th.  You can't tell me I didn't see that.

How does win/loss record tell you any of that???

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:22:00 PM (view original):
If a pitcher has 12 wins vs 14 wins, do you know how much he pitched to the score? How he did in high leverage situations? How often the games were blowouts or close?

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
"any of that back story bullshit" - im assuming you mean the whole "pitching to the score, managing games, etc." I know.  You've said that.  I think you're wrong.  

You've also given no evidence that says I'm wrong.  And I've seen, by watching games, pitchers that dial it up to 95 in big situations where they need outs...you know, up 2-1 with men on in late innings...and dial it back when they're up 7-1 in the 4th.  You can't tell me I didn't see that.

How does win/loss record tell you any of that???

I've seen Pedro Martinez, as a Met, do just what I'm saying.  If he throws 95 all game long, he's probably gassed in the 5th and isn't as effective, and his team loses.  If he doesn't dial it up in a big spot, maybe he loses a close game.  He manages the game effectively and gets a win. 

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
"any of that back story bullshit" - im assuming you mean the whole "pitching to the score, managing games, etc." I know.  You've said that.  I think you're wrong.  

You've also given no evidence that says I'm wrong.  And I've seen, by watching games, pitchers that dial it up to 95 in big situations where they need outs...you know, up 2-1 with men on in late innings...and dial it back when they're up 7-1 in the 4th.  You can't tell me I didn't see that.

How does win/loss record tell you any of that???

I've seen Pedro Martinez, as a Met, do just what I'm saying.  If he throws 95 all game long, he's probably gassed in the 5th and isn't as effective, and his team loses.  If he doesn't dial it up in a big spot, maybe he loses a close game.  He manages the game effectively and gets a win. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/5/2012 12:24:00 PM (view original):
How do you know a pitcher with 1.25 WHIP pitched to a score while the guy with 1.21 did not?   How the **** do you know if any pitcher pitched to a the score even if he claims he did?    Is mind-reading part of your arsenal?

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
"any of that back story bullshit" - im assuming you mean the whole "pitching to the score, managing games, etc." I know.  You've said that.  I think you're wrong.  

You've also given no evidence that says I'm wrong.  And I've seen, by watching games, pitchers that dial it up to 95 in big situations where they need outs...you know, up 2-1 with men on in late innings...and dial it back when they're up 7-1 in the 4th.  You can't tell me I didn't see that.

How does win/loss record tell you any of that???

I've seen Pedro Martinez, as a Met, do just what I'm saying.  If he throws 95 all game long, he's probably gassed in the 5th and isn't as effective, and his team loses.  If he doesn't dial it up in a big spot, maybe he loses a close game.  He manages the game effectively and gets a win. 

I'm not saying that doesn't happen.

I'm asking you how W/L record tells that story?

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
"any of that back story bullshit" - im assuming you mean the whole "pitching to the score, managing games, etc." I know.  You've said that.  I think you're wrong.  

You've also given no evidence that says I'm wrong.  And I've seen, by watching games, pitchers that dial it up to 95 in big situations where they need outs...you know, up 2-1 with men on in late innings...and dial it back when they're up 7-1 in the 4th.  You can't tell me I didn't see that.

How does win/loss record tell you any of that???

I've seen Pedro Martinez, as a Met, do just what I'm saying.  If he throws 95 all game long, he's probably gassed in the 5th and isn't as effective, and his team loses.  If he doesn't dial it up in a big spot, maybe he loses a close game.  He manages the game effectively and gets a win. 

I'm not saying that doesn't happen.

I'm asking you how W/L record tells that story?

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/5/2012 8:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 10:16:00 PM (view original):
If someone has a great ERA, we know they pitched well. They may have been lucky or had great defense behind them, but we know that they were effective in limiting the other teams runs. A win doesn't tell us that. It tells us that they pitched at least five innings, had the lead when they left, and the lead held up. Maybe they were great and pitched 9 shutout innings. Maybe they sucked and gave up 9 runs in 5 innings. We don't know. The stat is useless.

If someone has a great W/L record, we know they pitched well.  Unless, of course, you can find someone with a great W/L record that really stunk it up.

I'll wait here while you find him.

Are you even trying to find this mystery pitcher?

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
"any of that back story bullshit" - im assuming you mean the whole "pitching to the score, managing games, etc." I know.  You've said that.  I think you're wrong.  

You've also given no evidence that says I'm wrong.  And I've seen, by watching games, pitchers that dial it up to 95 in big situations where they need outs...you know, up 2-1 with men on in late innings...and dial it back when they're up 7-1 in the 4th.  You can't tell me I didn't see that.

How does win/loss record tell you any of that???

I've seen Pedro Martinez, as a Met, do just what I'm saying.  If he throws 95 all game long, he's probably gassed in the 5th and isn't as effective, and his team loses.  If he doesn't dial it up in a big spot, maybe he loses a close game.  He manages the game effectively and gets a win. 

I'm not saying that doesn't happen.

I'm asking you how W/L record tells that story?

If he throws 95 all the time, he might win more 7-0 games and lose more 3-2 games.  If he doesn't he might win more 7-4 games and win more 2-1 games.  I've already described this.  I don't understand why it's difficult to grasp.