Me and 17 of my closest friends are at the field and want to play ball.   We've got more than enough gloves and a dozen bats.   But no one thought to bring a ball.   We see a kid walking down the street juggling three baseballs.    We ask the kid what he needs to give us a ball.   He asks for a bat.  Our cheapest bat was $169.  The ball is $5.    Do you make the trade?

If you don't, you're just being stubborn.  And you won't get to play ball.

Circumstances can dictate value.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2013 7:24:00 PM (view original):
Me and 17 of my closest friends are at the field and want to play ball.   We've got more than enough gloves and a dozen bats.   But no one thought to bring a ball.   We see a kid walking down the street juggling three baseballs.    We ask the kid what he needs to give us a ball.   He asks for a bat.  Our cheapest bat was $169.  The ball is $5.    Do you make the trade?

If you don't, you're just being stubborn.  And you won't get to play ball.

Circumstances can dictate value.

Jesus christ, you would make that trade, wouldn't you?

Go to the ******* store and buy a baseball. The reason Posey still has full value in this scenario is because another team can't just go get another MVP type catcher from Sports Authority.

I have no money. 

So you think other teams don't think "Hey, they' have Posey dopplegangers.  They can't get full value?"    When everyone knows your situation, you're not negotiating from a position of strength.   Only a dumbass would offer full value.

Ever scalp a ticket to get into a sporting event?    Face value is listed on the ticket.   However, if it's a sellout, you're paying more.   Why?   It's more valuable because you don't have one and you won't get in without it. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2013 7:24:00 PM (view original):
Me and 17 of my closest friends are at the field and want to play ball.   We've got more than enough gloves and a dozen bats.   But no one thought to bring a ball.   We see a kid walking down the street juggling three baseballs.    We ask the kid what he needs to give us a ball.   He asks for a bat.  Our cheapest bat was $169.  The ball is $5.    Do you make the trade?

If you don't, you're just being stubborn.  And you won't get to play ball.

Circumstances can dictate value.

Just ask the kid with the balls to play with you.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2013 7:32:00 PM (view original):
I have no money. 

So you think other teams don't think "Hey, they' have Posey dopplegangers.  They can't get full value?"    When everyone knows your situation, you're not negotiating from a position of strength.   Only a dumbass would offer full value.

He has three baseballs?

According to you the additional baseballs don't have any value. He should give one up for free.

Oh, I see. Scarcity (you have zero baseballs) and lack of resources (you have no money) dictate that the baseballs are still valuable, even if he has more than one.

I think I found the problem.

None of this matters of course, because in this case the kid is juggling three 1961 Yankees signed balls.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2013 7:36:00 PM (view original):
Ever scalp a ticket to get into a sporting event?    Face value is listed on the ticket.   However, if it's a sellout, you're paying more.   Why?   It's more valuable because you don't have one and you won't get in without it. 

So you mean things that are rare and in demand, like sold out concert tickets and MVP caliber catchers, are actually more valuable?Interesting.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/18/2013 7:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2013 7:32:00 PM (view original):
I have no money. 

So you think other teams don't think "Hey, they' have Posey dopplegangers.  They can't get full value?"    When everyone knows your situation, you're not negotiating from a position of strength.   Only a dumbass would offer full value.

He has three baseballs?

According to you the additional baseballs don't have any value. He should give one up for free.

Oh, I see. Scarcity (you have zero baseballs) and lack of resources (you have no money) dictate that the baseballs are still valuable, even if he has more than one.

Ah, I see.   You think you determine the value of everything.    The kid with the baseballs decided one was worth a bat.   I think that's a bit overpriced but, since he controls the baseballs, he set their price.   I can accept it, negotiate a better deal or tell him to **** off.   But I can't tell him that he just needs to give me one because he has three.   That's a very liberal viewpoint and I'm not a liberal.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/18/2013 7:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2013 7:36:00 PM (view original):
Ever scalp a ticket to get into a sporting event?    Face value is listed on the ticket.   However, if it's a sellout, you're paying more.   Why?   It's more valuable because you don't have one and you won't get in without it. 

So you mean things that are rare and in demand, like sold out concert tickets and MVP caliber catchers, are actually more valuable?Interesting.

Depends on who you ask.    Tickets to Miley Cyrus hold no value to me.   You may love Miley Cyrus and think that a ticket to her concert is worth thousands. 

Circumstances dictate the value. 

Idiot. I'm arguing that the value if the baseballs doesn't change just because he has more than one. You have zero and want one so he has the leverage. Even if you know he has more than one.

And if I had a baseball how valuable would his be?

Circumstances dictate the value.     Why can't you understand this?

I have a Molina.   You have two Poseys.    How valuable is your Posey to me?

Circumstance.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2013 3:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/18/2013 3:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2013 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/18/2013 2:45:00 PM (view original):
This entire thing is beside the point. Someone (I can't remember who) argued that Trout was less valuable in 2013 because the Angels had Bourjos available to replace him. That this has gone on for several pages is a testament to getting waaay off track.

But, I think Cabrera plays 3B so poorly that moving him to 1B doesn't negatively affect his value. Fielder moves to DH which probably does negatively affect his value since he is only a below average first baseman, not a quadruple amputee, like Cabrera is at third.

 

The point I was making, and you confirmed with your 6.7/6.8 WAR, is value can depend on several factors.   Including teammates. 

How did teammates raise/lower Cabrera's WAR?

Change of positions.

And why didn't you respond to this?

This is starting to rival Juggalo Steve and the Lefty 2B threads.