2015 baseball HOF ballot. Topic

bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 3:58:00 PM (view original):
No, I'm saying passing the buck to Wilson, Davis, Buhner, Segui seems to be a less productive way to score runs.  

I'm not a "walk's as good as a hit" kind of guy after we get past Little League. 

I'll ask again.   Runner on 3rd, two outs.   Who do you want swinging the bat?   .320 guy or .227 guy?
But do we know if he actually did  "pass the buck?' As far as I know, this hypothetical that you're holding against Martinez never happened. You're essentially saying, "hey, he walked a lot, here's one scenario where a walk wouldn't be ideal, obviously that means he walked too much."

That's some screwy logic.
2/7/2014 4:16 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by cobra on 2/7/2014 4:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 3:58:00 PM (view original):
No, I'm saying passing the buck to Wilson, Davis, Buhner, Segui seems to be a less productive way to score runs.  

I'm not a "walk's as good as a hit" kind of guy after we get past Little League. 

I'll ask again.   Runner on 3rd, two outs.   Who do you want swinging the bat?   .320 guy or .227 guy?
Btw, same argument a lot of fans in Cincinnati are having about Joey Votto. Great hitter, walks too often with runners in scoring position
FWIW, it's not a player's fault on where he bats in the line-up.   And I'm not sure telling a player, long-term, to change his approach is a good thing.   Management has to figure how to use their assets. 
2/7/2014 4:17 PM
bad_luck
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So I looked it up with BR play index.

Martinez came up to bat with at least a runner on 3rd (but not bases loaded) and two outs in a game where the Mariners were down by 1 or tied and walked exactly 3 times over his entire career.

The Mariners ended up winning all three games (5/19/1994, 5/5/1991, 6/14/1990). Two of the walks were intentional, one was not.

Seems like this is a stupid hypothetical to try to use to evaluate his hall of fame candidacy.
2/7/2014 4:39 PM (edited)
cobra
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He only played half the game of baseball. He's a hall of famer as a hitter, but that's only part of the game. No entry
2/7/2014 5:19 PM
MikeT23
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Yeah, they seem to be ignoring the other reasons.

How many times did he come to back with a runner on second, down by 1 with two outs and walked?  Because, you know, that is scoring position on a hit but not a walk.
2/7/2014 5:46 PM
tecwrg
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Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.
2/7/2014 5:47 PM
MikeT23
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BL will tell you that the stats say a walk increases their chances of winning.   Common sense says that's bullshit but BL doesn't have a common sense stat.

 

2/7/2014 5:49 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.
No one is hoping he walks in that situation. I'm only saying that his ability to walk was not a bad thing. Mike thinks it was.

It's ridiculous that it has come to this. Martinez came up to bat in the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied and walked all of 3 times. Over his entire career. I think we can put it the issue to rest.
2/7/2014 6:02 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 5:46:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, they seem to be ignoring the other reasons.

How many times did he come to back with a runner on second, down by 1 with two outs and walked?  Because, you know, that is scoring position on a hit but not a walk.
You can run that report in BR. Have fun.
2/7/2014 6:03 PM
MikeT23
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Not that interested.  I assume Martinez walked. 

All I know, back on 7/2/2001, is I was watching the Yankees.   Paul O'Neill was at the plate and all I was thinking "Man, I hope he draws a walk so we can get the Shane Spencer!!!!"

2/7/2014 6:12 PM
bad_luck
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You'd be wrong in that assumption. I ran the report. He came up in the 9th with two outs and a runner on 2nd with the Mariners trailing by 1 three times in his career.

He got two hits and flew out once.

I guess the entire premise of your argument has gone to ****. See you Monday.
2/7/2014 6:15 PM
MikeT23
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You've avoided the question long enough.

2 outs, runner on 3rd and you need a run.    Do you want the .320 hitter swinging or the .227 hitter?
2/7/2014 6:18 PM
MikeT23
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And, by the way, run me another report.  Your pick.

2/7/2014 6:18 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.
No one is hoping he walks in that situation. I'm only saying that his ability to walk was not a bad thing. Mike thinks it was.

It's ridiculous that it has come to this. Martinez came up to bat in the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied and walked all of 3 times. Over his entire career. I think we can put it the issue to rest.
Maybe taking the bat off his shoulder and lining a double into the gap would have been a better thing.

Just maybe.
2/7/2014 6:36 PM
burnsy483
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This got funny.
2/7/2014 6:37 PM
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