Clear, early leader in the most retarded argument of 2014 contest.

Posted by tecwrg on 2/9/2014 6:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/9/2014 6:33:00 PM (view original):

Would you say Elston Howard was better than Davis, Wilson, Buhner?  I would.

Even if you wouldn't, Mantle's teammates drove him in over 31% of the time.   That's respectable.    Martinez's teammates weren't capable of 28% of the time.  So far, that's been the weakest by far.   Are you saying Martinez was so dumb that he didn't realize the guys behind him blew chunks?

Are you saying that by getting on base (regardless of how) that Martinez was hurting his team?

Simple yes or no is all that's necessary.

Mariners down by 1.  Two outs, bottom of the ninth, tying run on second.  Edgar Martinez at the plate.  Dan Wilson on deck.

What do you want Edgar to do?

Obviously you want him to get a hit. I think we already established that Martinez walked a grand total of three times (2 were intentional) in situations like this over his entire career.

Why is this non-existent hypothetical being held against him? I feel like we're stuck in a Kafka novel here.

Posted by The Taint on 2/9/2014 8:21:00 PM (view original):
Clear, early leader in the most retarded argument of 2014 contest.

By far.

In mikes world, Martinez's high OBP is a bad thing.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 10:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/9/2014 6:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/9/2014 6:33:00 PM (view original):

Would you say Elston Howard was better than Davis, Wilson, Buhner?  I would.

Even if you wouldn't, Mantle's teammates drove him in over 31% of the time.   That's respectable.    Martinez's teammates weren't capable of 28% of the time.  So far, that's been the weakest by far.   Are you saying Martinez was so dumb that he didn't realize the guys behind him blew chunks?

Are you saying that by getting on base (regardless of how) that Martinez was hurting his team?

Simple yes or no is all that's necessary.

Mariners down by 1.  Two outs, bottom of the ninth, tying run on second.  Edgar Martinez at the plate.  Dan Wilson on deck.

What do you want Edgar to do?

Obviously you want him to get a hit. I think we already established that Martinez walked a grand total of three times (2 were intentional) in situations like this over his entire career.

Why is this non-existent hypothetical being held against him? I feel like we're stuck in a Kafka novel here.

I think your "three times in this situation" was with a man on third.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 10:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 2/9/2014 8:21:00 PM (view original):
Clear, early leader in the most retarded argument of 2014 contest.

By far.

In mikes world, Martinez's high OBP is a bad thing.

High OBP isn't necessarily a bad thing.

One of the best pure hitters in the game settling for walks in a situation where a hit would be preferable . . . not so good.

Oh ok. Who gives a ****? Clearly this isn't a situation that happened very often. Why 18 pages arguing about it?

Because you're funny.  Like a clown.  You amuse me.

Plus, you're so goddamned enslaved by your tunnel-vision love of stats, such as OBP and such, that you continually fail to understand the human element of the game.  Such as swing the ******* bat when the game is on the line.

That's the funny/clownish/amusing part.

You don't think I'm amused by two idiots arguing that Martinez doesn't belong in the hall of fame, not because he added very little value on defense and not because he didn't have huge power numbers, but because his high OBP included a 14% walk rate?

It's hilarious.

Posted by tecwrg on 2/9/2014 11:11:00 PM (view original):
Plus, you're so goddamned enslaved by your tunnel-vision love of stats, such as OBP and such, that you continually fail to understand the human element of the game.  Such as swing the ******* bat when the game is on the line.

That's the funny/clownish/amusing part.

I don't think anyone has presented any evidence that Martinez didn't swing the bat when the game was on the line.

hey Mike...... I noticed you did not respond to this...probably because it shoots your runs scored argument all to hell


Mike...what do the following players all have in common: Willie Stargell, Ron Santo, Orlando Cepeda, Joe Medwick, Edd Roush, Bill Terry, Buck Ewing, Joe Sewell, Deacon White, Billy Herman, Chuck Klein, Arky Vaughn, Yogi Berra, Jim Bottomley, Pie Traynor, Earle Combs, Lloyd Waner, Bobby Doerr, Johnny Bench, Kirby Puckett, Hank Greenberg, John McGraw, Bobby Wallace, Mickey Cochrane, Gary Carter, Jimmy Collins, Dave Bancroft, Tommy McCarthy, Joe Torre, Hughie Jennings, Tony Lazzeri, Ralph Kiner, Larry Doby?

None of them scored as many runs in a major league game as Edgar Martinez.  And they are all in the HOF. Your current argument is stupid.

Quiz...who was less likely to make an out

A. Edgar Martinez
B. Stan Musial
C. Ricky Henderson
D. Wade Boggs

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/9/2014 6:54:00 PM (view original):
Have I not answered this MANY times?

Who do you want swingng with RISP?   A .320 hitter or a .240 hitter?   A simple yes or no is all that's necessary.

Swinging at what? Any strike? What's the score...who is pitching....what is their fatigue level....how many men are on base...what inning is it, etc. Clearly baseball has too many variables to give a simple answer....but I know that is what simple minds want.

<<Mariners down by 1.  Two outs, bottom of the ninth, tying run on second.  Edgar Martinez at the plate.  Dan Wilson on deck.

What do you want Edgar to do?>>

Tec...seriously...that is your scenario? Your assumption that the hitter is in control of this situation is laughable. But if it's Rivera or Wetteland on the mound we know that Edgar is going to hit the crap out of the ball. 

But since you and Mike are so smart, why don't we let you be the manager of the team in the field. What are you telling your pitcher to do? Your guy has the ball...what do you want him to do with it?

Troll away...

Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 11:13:00 PM (view original):
You don't think I'm amused by two idiots arguing that Martinez doesn't belong in the hall of fame, not because he added very little value on defense and not because he didn't have huge power numbers, but because his high OBP included a 14% walk rate?

It's hilarious.

My argument about EM not belonging in the HOF has nothing to do with his OBP or he number of walks that he drew.  It's the fact that the volume of his body of work as a hitter is borderline HOF, but the fact that he only played half the game hurts his case.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 11:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/9/2014 11:11:00 PM (view original):
Plus, you're so goddamned enslaved by your tunnel-vision love of stats, such as OBP and such, that you continually fail to understand the human element of the game.  Such as swing the ******* bat when the game is on the line.

That's the funny/clownish/amusing part.

I don't think anyone has presented any evidence that Martinez didn't swing the bat when the game was on the line.

Well, you've kept arguing, HYPOTHETICALLY, that EM drawing a walk in those situations and hoping that the Dan Wilson's of the world get the job done is somehow better than him swinging the bat.

Which is funny/clownish/amusing.