2015 baseball HOF ballot. Topic

tecwrg
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/11/2014 2:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/11/2014 2:47:00 PM (view original):
Honestly, this is stupid.    I can't imagine anyone watching a game with EM at the plate, Russ Davis on deck with runners on/2 outs and thinking "A walk is good.   It increase our run probability from .273 to .324.  TAKE THE WALK, EDGAR!!!!!"

It just makes no sense from a common sense baseball standpoint. 
It also makes no sense to think "Swing at a pitch in the dirt, Edgar!  It's still better than a walk!"
No, Edgar's taking strikes and hoping for a walk.  Evidence of this? um...
Evidence would be almost every major league game played over the past 150 years.

Unless you're going to argue that nobody has EVER had a plate appearance which included a called strike that eventually ended with a base on balls.

Geez, I even see that in Little League.
2/11/2014 2:57 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/11/2014 2:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/11/2014 2:47:00 PM (view original):
Honestly, this is stupid.    I can't imagine anyone watching a game with EM at the plate, Russ Davis on deck with runners on/2 outs and thinking "A walk is good.   It increase our run probability from .273 to .324.  TAKE THE WALK, EDGAR!!!!!"

It just makes no sense from a common sense baseball standpoint. 
It also makes no sense to think "Swing at a pitch in the dirt, Edgar!  It's still better than a walk!"
Who suggested that?
If a pitcher doesn't throw it in the strike zone, do we agree that our hypothetical hitter (unless it's Vlad Guerrero) shouldn't swing?

Less than 1/6th of EM's walks came on 3-0 counts.    About 58% of his total walks came with runners on.    I'm guessing he saw some strikes at least 500 of those 720ish times he walked with runners on.

2/11/2014 2:58 PM
toddcommish
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Oh, and this is for Major League hitters only.  If Timmy Lupus is on deck, I'm telling Kelly Leak to swing away during his intentional walk.
2/11/2014 2:58 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:57:00 PM (view original):
I think what we're looking for is the % of CALLED strikes vs.swinging strikes vs. foul balls vs. BIP with RISP.
Ideally, RISP late and close.
2/11/2014 2:58 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:57:00 PM (view original):
I think what we're looking for is the % of CALLED strikes vs.swinging strikes vs. foul balls vs. BIP with RISP.
Even that won't tell the entire story. A 3-0 slider on the corner isn't a pitch I'd want a hitter swinging at, even if it ends up being called a strike.
2/11/2014 2:59 PM
toddcommish
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Posted by bad_luck on 2/11/2014 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:57:00 PM (view original):
I think what we're looking for is the % of CALLED strikes vs.swinging strikes vs. foul balls vs. BIP with RISP.
Even that won't tell the entire story. A 3-0 slider on the corner isn't a pitch I'd want a hitter swinging at, even if it ends up being called a strike.
Plus, most umps almost always give the pitcher the 3-0 pitch if it's in the general vicinity of the plate.
2/11/2014 3:01 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 2/11/2014 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:57:00 PM (view original):
I think what we're looking for is the % of CALLED strikes vs.swinging strikes vs. foul balls vs. BIP with RISP.
Even that won't tell the entire story. A 3-0 slider on the corner isn't a pitch I'd want a hitter swinging at, even if it ends up being called a strike.
And the .105 hitter in the on-deck circle pees himself a little with every called strike on the fictional Edward Martinez.
2/11/2014 3:02 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/11/2014 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:57:00 PM (view original):
I think what we're looking for is the % of CALLED strikes vs.swinging strikes vs. foul balls vs. BIP with RISP.
Even that won't tell the entire story. A 3-0 slider on the corner isn't a pitch I'd want a hitter swinging at, even if it ends up being called a strike.
Plus, most umps almost always give the pitcher the 3-0 pitch if it's in the general vicinity of the plate.
LOL.  Now the umps are conspiring to keep poor Edgar from having a fair chance at the plate.
2/11/2014 3:02 PM
burnsy483
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You guys understand why every strike isn't swung at, right?
2/11/2014 3:03 PM
toddcommish
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How many .105 hitters are there?  Sometimes, your reductio ad absurdum gets out of hand.
2/11/2014 3:03 PM
burnsy483
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What evidence have you shown that Edgar is less aggressive in big spots than other elite cleanup hitters?
2/11/2014 3:04 PM
toddcommish
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/11/2014 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/11/2014 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 2/11/2014 2:57:00 PM (view original):
I think what we're looking for is the % of CALLED strikes vs.swinging strikes vs. foul balls vs. BIP with RISP.
Even that won't tell the entire story. A 3-0 slider on the corner isn't a pitch I'd want a hitter swinging at, even if it ends up being called a strike.
Plus, most umps almost always give the pitcher the 3-0 pitch if it's in the general vicinity of the plate.
LOL.  Now the umps are conspiring to keep poor Edgar from having a fair chance at the plate.
No, but I can SEE where the 3-0 pitches are, and I recognize that the zone gets a little wider.
2/11/2014 3:04 PM
bad_luck
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Mike, you're holding Martinez to a standard that doesn't exist. His numbers are in line with every other elite hitter.
2/11/2014 3:04 PM
MikeT23
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And my argument has been that EM wasn't afforded the same protection as most of them.    The players hitting behind were not good.   Because of that, I need him to expand his strike zone just a tiny bit.
2/11/2014 3:06 PM
toddcommish
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/11/2014 3:06:00 PM (view original):
And my argument has been that EM wasn't afforded the same protection as most of them.    The players hitting behind were not good.   Because of that, I need him to expand his strike zone just a tiny bit.
OK, I think I get it.

Badluck thinks Edgar is an elite hitter, and belongs in the HOF
MikeT thinks Edgar should've taken fewer walks because Russ Davis sucked, and Edgar doesn't belong in the HOF
Tec hates Puerto Ricans and think Edgar should've taken fewer walks because he thinks the Mariners hit .105
2/11/2014 3:10 PM
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