Adrian Beltre Topic

Previous post.
7/28/2014 4:24 PM
Oh, regarding Soriano.  You said he learned 2B on the fly; if you play SS your entire life and begin playing 2B the year before you get called up, it's not exactly "on the fly."  It's not like there's much of a learning curve after playing SS for so long.
7/28/2014 4:27 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/28/2014 4:24:00 PM (view original):
Well, the lefthanders probably weren't SS either but I think you understand the point.    The best HS players play SS or pitch.   Unless they're 6'6" or are lefthanded.   Where a player started in the minors is pretty irrelevant. 
No, this one.
7/28/2014 4:28 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/28/2014 4:07:00 PM (view original):

Source?

I won't disgree with the catcher part but I doubt the rest.

Too much work to look up an adequate sample size to really make meaningful claims, especially given that I know enough of the history of enough players to make it tough to choose a fair sampling without checking virtually everyone.  So let's just compromise on this one and agree that a disproportionately large proportion of Major League players played SS or CF in high school, but maybe not "almost every Major League ballplayer" was a SS.

Although I do know that Jim Thome and Miguel Cabrera were both SS's before being drafted, so there is that.

7/28/2014 4:28 PM
Well, I did clarify that 6'6" players and lefthanders were not SS in HS. 
7/28/2014 4:30 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/28/2014 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/28/2014 4:24:00 PM (view original):
Well, the lefthanders probably weren't SS either but I think you understand the point.    The best HS players play SS or pitch.   Unless they're 6'6" or are lefthanded.   Where a player started in the minors is pretty irrelevant. 
No, this one.
Irrelevant to what?  What are we arguing again?  
7/28/2014 4:31 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 7/28/2014 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/28/2014 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/28/2014 4:24:00 PM (view original):
Well, the lefthanders probably weren't SS either but I think you understand the point.    The best HS players play SS or pitch.   Unless they're 6'6" or are lefthanded.   Where a player started in the minors is pretty irrelevant. 
No, this one.
Irrelevant to what?  What are we arguing again?  
That most MLB 2B were drafted as SS.   No ****.   Because the best athletes played SS or pitched in HS and/or college.   Except for the 6'6" or lefthanded ones.
7/28/2014 4:33 PM
OK.  And if you can cut it at that position, you stay there, because it's very valuable to have someone at that position be that good of an offensive player.  If you can't, you get moved (often to 2B) and hope you're good enough there.

But there aren't a ton of people who can play SS at an ML-quality level, and there aren't a ton of people who can hit at an ML-quality level.  And if you get both in the same person, you've got someone very valuable.
7/28/2014 4:36 PM
There aren't many people who can play 3B well.  Beltre can.  He can also hit VERY well.  This makes him very valuable.  He's rare.
7/28/2014 4:39 PM

And, as I said, 40 years ago, they valued defense over offense at SS and CF thus making them "defensive positions".   That no longer exists for the exact reason you just laid out.  

7/28/2014 4:39 PM
Well, the fact that the Yankees won a few World Series over the last 20 years with a horrible fielding SS kinda makes that point too.
7/28/2014 4:42 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 7/28/2014 4:39:00 PM (view original):
There aren't many people who can play 3B well.  Beltre can.  He can also hit VERY well.  This makes him very valuable.  He's rare.
He may be rare.   But that doesn't make him a HOFer.  

John Franco was rare.   A small LHP you didn't throw particularly hard but still got a lot of people out.   Had an outstanding career.   But not a HOF career.
7/28/2014 4:43 PM
Alfonseca was rare too, with the whole six finger thing.  Maybe he should be in the HOF too...
7/28/2014 4:45 PM
JIM ABBOTT AND PETE GRAY!!!!
7/28/2014 4:49 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/28/2014 4:07:00 PM (view original):

Source?

I won't disgree with the catcher part but I doubt the rest.

(sorry, can't get the picture to format right, follow the link)


http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/primary-major-league-positions-for-top-draft-talents/
.

That's actually a really interesting piece beyond just the amateur positional distribution of draft picks. It also says this:

As demonstrated above, teams typically will not hesitate to move amateur third basemen, corner outfielders and catchers to first base, which means that players drafted as first basemen must wage war on several different fronts. Not only are they competing with other first basemen in the organization but also with multiple position-switch candidates at the other three corners (and sometimes catcher).

Which goes directly to the discussion of why first basemen have to hit more than players at other positions.
7/28/2014 4:54 PM (edited)
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