Pete Rose and the HOF Topic

tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 3/17/2015 2:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Rose's accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the HOF are tainted.

Apples and oranges.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

They got there in a way you're uncomfortable with, but the accomplishments are there. 
Bingo.

Guys will always be looking to gain an edge.

Gambling provides a huge incentive to lose.
There's no evidence of Rose gambling as an active player.
3/17/2015 2:29 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/17/2015 2:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Rose's accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the HOF are tainted.

Apples and oranges.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

They got there in a way you're uncomfortable with, but the accomplishments are there. 
Bingo.

Guys will always be looking to gain an edge.

Gambling provides a huge incentive to lose.
There's no evidence of Rose gambling as an active player.
Is there evidence that Bagwell used PEDs?
3/17/2015 2:32 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Rose's accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the HOF are tainted.

Apples and oranges.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

They got there in a way you're uncomfortable with, but the accomplishments are there. 
No, they're not.  A 'roided up player's accomplishments are not really accomplishments.

Would you be the world's smartest poker player ever if it was discovered that you played most of the time with a deck of marked cards?
Are there a ton of players using marked cards, and the "poker association(?)" looked the other way as you used them? You might not be the smartest but if you win the most poker championships, you have the most poker championships. And many other people were doing the same thing you were.
3/17/2015 2:32 PM
bad_luck
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Yeah, it isn't a great analogy.


3/17/2015 2:34 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Rose's accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the HOF are tainted.

Apples and oranges.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

They got there in a way you're uncomfortable with, but the accomplishments are there. 
No, they're not.  A 'roided up player's accomplishments are not really accomplishments.

Would you be the world's smartest poker player ever if it was discovered that you played most of the time with a deck of marked cards?
Are there a ton of players using marked cards, and the "poker association(?)" looked the other way as you used them? You might not be the smartest but if you win the most poker championships, you have the most poker championships. And many other people were doing the same thing you were.
If you win a lot of money cheating at poker, does that make you a good poker player?  Or does that just mean you're good at cheating?
3/17/2015 2:35 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Rose's accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the HOF are tainted.

Apples and oranges.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

They got there in a way you're uncomfortable with, but the accomplishments are there. 
No, they're not.  A 'roided up player's accomplishments are not really accomplishments.

Would you be the world's smartest poker player ever if it was discovered that you played most of the time with a deck of marked cards?
Are there a ton of players using marked cards, and the "poker association(?)" looked the other way as you used them? You might not be the smartest but if you win the most poker championships, you have the most poker championships. And many other people were doing the same thing you were.
If you win a lot of money cheating at poker, does that make you a good poker player?  Or does that just mean you're good at cheating?
To quote someone else in this thread, apples an oranges.

Just taking steroids isn't a huge advantage (like marked cards). We know this because of the huge list of ****** ballplayers caught using steroids.

PEDs are a slight advantage if your opponents aren't also taking them. Like amphetamines. Or a doctored/illegal baseball/bat.
3/17/2015 2:37 PM
AlCheez
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Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/17/2015 2:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Rose's accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the HOF are tainted.

Apples and oranges.

Clemens and Bonds' accomplishments on the field are worthy of the HOF.

They got there in a way you're uncomfortable with, but the accomplishments are there. 
Bingo.

Guys will always be looking to gain an edge.

Gambling provides a huge incentive to lose.
There's no evidence of Rose gambling as an active player.
There's absolutely evidence that he was betting on baseball in '85-86.  Not as much as in '87, but it's there.
3/17/2015 2:38 PM
burnsy483
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Betting on games where you're actively involved in the outcome is a HUGE deal. Even with betting on some games, only for your team to win, it screws with the integrity of the game. Ranges from "I bet on this game, I'll put the beat-up player in the lineup rather than sit him" and "I didn't bet on this game, my best reliever can have the day off." Whether or not the manager has money on the game can have a huge impact on the outcome. That can't happen.

And it was always against the rules in baseball, it was never actually acceptable. If PEDs were always against the rules, and strictly enforced, and Bonds and Clemens were one of a few who took them? You'd have a better argument. But they took them because everyone else was, and MLB didn't care.
3/17/2015 2:39 PM
burnsy483
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I should use the logic tec has used before when arguing for things that happened in the world I didn't agree with.

"Well, the people who run baseball think he should be banned. Do you think you know better than the people who actually run baseball for a living?"
3/17/2015 2:43 PM
burnsy483
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FWIW, I voted yes.
3/17/2015 2:44 PM
burnsy483
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And I'd argue that the "poker equivalent" would be something like Adderall, not marked cards. You have a better ability to be alert, read others, and have a better idea on what your chances are at winning a particular hand.
3/17/2015 2:45 PM
bad_luck
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I really thought hurricane sandy would be a more popular choice.
3/17/2015 2:57 PM
burnsy483
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Ohhhh now I get it. I was thinking the opposite of sandy. Since it's wet.
3/17/2015 3:03 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:43:00 PM (view original):
I should use the logic tec has used before when arguing for things that happened in the world I didn't agree with.

"Well, the people who run baseball think he should be banned. Do you think you know better than the people who actually run baseball for a living?"
So you're incapable of independent critical thinking?

That explains why you act like BL's puppy so often.

Thought I'd pick a better master if I were you.

3/17/2015 3:07 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 3/17/2015 3:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/17/2015 2:43:00 PM (view original):
I should use the logic tec has used before when arguing for things that happened in the world I didn't agree with.

"Well, the people who run baseball think he should be banned. Do you think you know better than the people who actually run baseball for a living?"
So you're incapable of independent critical thinking?

That explains why you act like BL's puppy so often.

Thought I'd pick a better master if I were you.

"So you're incapable of independent critical thinking?"

LOL at the irony.
3/17/2015 3:09 PM
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