Posted by Jtpsops on 7/27/2016 3:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 7/27/2016 2:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 7/27/2016 1:22:00 PM (view original):
If you want to argue 500 shouldn't be a benchmark, that's fine, but everyone who hit that mark is in (except Bonds and Palmeiro. Thome will be in when he's eligible).
Not to mention, I would argue that McGwire redefined power in a way that maybe only Ruth has surpassed. His homers were "bigger than the game" for a few years.
I'm not sure Thome will get in. The fact that he was well-liked might get him in near the end of his eligibility. I wouldn't rule it out. But given that his career largely overlapped with McGwire, Bagwell, Palmeiro, Frank Thomas, Jason Giambi, Edgar Martinez, Todd Helton, and Pujols, does he Thome really "feel" good enough to reach the bar for his era? Personally, I'd put Mac, Thomas, and Edgar in as "steroid era" 1B/DH types and Pujols as more of a post-steroid era guy and leave it at that (although if we're gonna talk about post-steroid era, you'd have to assume that Miggy's on his way to the Hall as well). If you wanted one more guy it would be Bagwell or Palmeiro. At another time, Giambi or Thome's numbers would certainly be good enough. But either one of them was basically about the 6th-best 1B/DH in baseball at his peak. I don't see how that's good enough. Heck, for about 2 years Giambi had a pretty strong argument as the best 1B in baseball. But it's 2 years. Outside of that too many guys were better than he was. Thome's best MVP finish was 4th in 2003, and two of the guys who finished below him (Javy Lopez and Helton) probably hit better in retrospect.
In an era in which guys like Gary Sheffield and Lance Berkman won't even merit serious consideration - and seriously, look how good those guys' numbers are if you don't already know - I don't see guys like Thome and Sosa deserving to get in. There were just too many people who were better.
Just my opinion, but I don't think Thome used, and I don't think many people feel he used. He was just a monster of a man, like Frank Thomas.
So he may have been the 5th or 6th best 1B of his ERA, but if the 5 ahead of him are all known or strongly-suspected users, he may get the nod as a guy who put up monster numbers cleanly.
And therein lies the problem with trying to sort out who used, who didn't.
Griffey, Ripken, Pujols, Thome, Jeter, Thomas, etc, etc are given passes. And every one of them could have a case made against them based on circumstantial evidence.
Clemens was CLEARED in a court of law. No one says "Well, I guess he didn't use." In part, I believe, because he was a dick.