I don't know what AFC/NFC division they play next year....but i can see them being 8-8 on that D alone.

Denver should draft the best TE in the draft and then go after OL help.  The WR's they have are ok....they need to work on their hands.  Dropped too many balls.

Posted by 05nomar05 on 1/17/2012 11:46:00 AM (view original):
I don't know what AFC/NFC division they play next year....but i can see them being 8-8 on that D alone.

Denver should draft the best TE in the draft and then go after OL help.  The WR's they have are ok....they need to work on their hands.  Dropped too many balls.

NFC South, AFC North, plus Houston, New England

Road games - 3 division, Baltimore, Cincinnati, New England, Atlanta, Carolina
Home games - 3 division, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa Bay

If the teams are all fairly similar (which is a big if), 8-8 is possible, but I think 6-10 or 7-9 is far more realistic.

Posted by The Taint on 1/17/2012 11:25:00 AM (view original):
Except for the defense has to totally respect Brady and his ability to throw.  Not so much with Tebow. 

Open bet for any takers.  20 dollar gift card that the Broncos don't finish with the same record or better this season and Tebow dosen't finish with 54 percent passing, which would be giving him the two extra completions per game that you were taking about.  Gotta be on the right side of both ends of the deal to collect.

Wow, essentially offering a parlay at even money?  And JTP took it?

Ben Franklin was right...

What are you talking about? Taint has to get both right to win as well. If we split, no one gets paid.

Posted by moranis on 1/17/2012 11:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by 05nomar05 on 1/17/2012 11:46:00 AM (view original):
I don't know what AFC/NFC division they play next year....but i can see them being 8-8 on that D alone.

Denver should draft the best TE in the draft and then go after OL help.  The WR's they have are ok....they need to work on their hands.  Dropped too many balls.

NFC South, AFC North, plus Houston, New England

Road games - 3 division, Baltimore, Cincinnati, New England, Atlanta, Carolina
Home games - 3 division, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa Bay

If the teams are all fairly similar (which is a big if), 8-8 is possible, but I think 6-10 or 7-9 is far more realistic.

I'll give them a 3-3 record in the divison. They should beat Cincy, Carolina, Cleveland, Tampa, and lose to Pitt, NO, NE and Baltimore.  That's 7-7. As long as they can beat one of Atlanta or Houston, that's 8-8. I think it's more than doable.

Posted by The Taint on 1/17/2012 11:25:00 AM (view original):
Except for the defense has to totally respect Brady and his ability to throw.  Not so much with Tebow. 

Open bet for any takers.  20 dollar gift card that the Broncos don't finish with the same record or better this season and Tebow dosen't finish with 54 percent passing, which would be giving him the two extra completions per game that you were taking about.  Gotta be on the right side of both ends of the deal to collect.

The Read Option has nothing to do with throwing.

But, for fun, are you saying that Pittsburgh wasn't sure if Tebow could throw?  That they were hesistant to bring it because they thought he might throw it instead of running a Read Option?

Because, if you are, that's silly.

Who do you think sees run blitzes more often, Tebow or Brady? You pick the one outlier of 10 games as being the norm. Teams can't key on Woodhead because of Brady. You will see players key on McGahee fairly often. Pittsburgh controlled that game until both their starting d-tackles went out. KC showed you exactly how to play Tebow and the Broncos.

Again, part of that is Fox. And I'm sure you'll say that's a cop out, but look at overtime in the Pitt game - they'd run 23 of 24 first downs, so Pitt keyed in on it. That's what can happen when you mix it up and give the other team what they're not expecting. Unfortunately, 95% of the time when the other team is expecting a run - Fox runs it. Tebow has to work on his accuracy no question, but if they'd run more play actions at key times, they would have gotten better results in some games this season. Even when Fox decides to "mix it up", he's still somehow very predictable with when he takes chances. He needs to work on taking more risks.  

I'm not sure if teams do this or not, but Fox should have someone looking at Broncos game film and saying "okay John, in this scenario, based on how you've called games, I KNOW you're going to run this play - and other defenses will know it too. So throw this play in instead."  And if that's happening and Fox is just ignoring it, then Elway needs to give him a slap across the head and tell him to grow a set.

I dunno, second and six and third and three are much more manageable than 2nd/3rd and ten, which I think you'd see alot of with Tebow. Maybe he will improve and Fox will open the okay book a bit more but I think he's just working with what he has.

Er play. Damn phone.

Posted by The Taint on 1/17/2012 12:54:00 PM (view original):
Who do you think sees run blitzes more often, Tebow or Brady? You pick the one outlier of 10 games as being the norm. Teams can't key on Woodhead because of Brady. You will see players key on McGahee fairly often. Pittsburgh controlled that game until both their starting d-tackles went out. KC showed you exactly how to play Tebow and the Broncos.

Wow.

Who do you think runs more often, Denver or NE?    I'm not sure Pittsburgh ever had the lead in that game.   How, exactly, did they control it?   And, if I can't use the PItt game as my example, you can't use the KC game. 

Anyway, I think we both know Tebow(or Denver) has to become more of a passing threat.   But that doesn't really pertain to the Read Option.   If they were lining up in an I, teams would still run blitz them more often than not because, wait for it, they don't pass very often or very effectively. 

You still haven't told me why the Read Option can't work.   It's a QB taking a snap in the shotgun with a RB standing next to him.    A lot of teams run that formation.

It's kind of a chicken/egg thing right now, IMO.  Fox won't unleash Tebow until Tebow throws more consistently - but Tebow may not throw more consistently when he occasionally goes full quarters (or 2-3 drives) without an attempt.

I didn't watch many Carolina games back in the day, but if the playcalling was this spotty then, I could understand why Delhomme looked totally off sometimes. I'd imagine a big chunk of QBing is getting in a consistent rhythm (hence all the talk about making Brady/Rodgers/Brees uncomfortable and taking them out of their rhythms.

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/16/2012 11:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slashtc on 1/16/2012 9:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/16/2012 6:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slashtc on 1/16/2012 3:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2012 2:14:00 PM (view original):
It's funny because when I say "Player X went from 48 to 51 to 55 percent", it never gets acknowledged.  And virtually EVERY QB who started when he was young went thru the same process.   Too many incompletions/interceptions.   And virtually EVERY ONE of them improved in S2-S3. 

There's no guarantee that he'll get any better.  But history is on his side.

You sir are the expert at ignoring valid points people make.  I don't think you get the right to complain if/when it happens to you.

The reason people are ignoring you is because of the points you've argued vehemently, only to later confess you don't understand what's being argued or didn't see the play/game in question. You've massacred your own credibility.

LOL.  Nice try.  You must have confessed you don't know what you're talking about.  I did no such thing.  It appears that I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm not going to go back and find all the posts, but the following two examples came from you:

1) "Denver's running a high school/kiddy offense"..."Do you even know what the Read Option is?"..."well, not really."

2) "Tebow didn't look good last night (Pittsburgh game)"..."When? He actually played well"..."Well, I didn't really watch the game, but from the couple plays I saw, he wasn't good".

And that's only two of at least a handful. Keep denying it, but even the Tebow haters know you said that stuff, which is why none of them defend you even when you're on the same side. You've argued points steadfastly, only to later acknowledge you didn't actually know/see what was being talked about. So by all means, keep making yourself look even more foolish by claiming otherwise.

Had I said either of those, I'd agree. 

1)They aren't running a read option, so whether I know EXACTLY what it is since I don't follow college football is irrelevent.  They run some read option plays.  That has little to do with his passing accuracy, and you know it.  Yet you continue to focus on it.

2) I said I didn't see the whole game.  Never said 2 plays, or a couple plays.  I saw enough to see him miss a bunch of WIDE OPEN receivers.  I saw his completion percentage at the end of the game.  I saw he had a lot of RAC yards. 

You see what you want to see because it allows you to ignore all of the facts that prove my points.  People told me not to waste my time with you.  I saw NOBODY take up your side except Mike.  When Mike is the only one on your side, that should tell you how wrong you are.

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/17/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
Depends though. The Pitt game, regardless of injuries, showed how dangerous/effective the option can be if Tebow hits his receivers. The first NE game, they were giving NE all they could handle, but they took themselves out of it with three fumbles. Would they have won? I can't say, but it's a much closer game otherwise. On Saturday, the Broncos were all flat, Tebow included, and the Pats defense had their best game of the season.

The option can work, especially if Tebow can improve his accuracy and the defense gets more consistent. I think a big factor, along with Tebow's inconsistent passing, is Fox's predictability. Even against Pitt, they threw on like 2 of 25 first downs. How much success is a team gonna have when 98% of first downs are runs, and the other team knows it?

The option can work, but if they stick with it, it's going to take improvements from the defense, Tebow and Fox. The only one who consistently did his job all year, and was a HUGE reason the Broncos made the playoffs was McGahee. I'm very disappointed he hasn't gotten more mention/credit, especially with how everyone was calling him washed up when the Broncos got him.

All the Pitt game showed was what that offense could do if they gave NO respect to Tebow's arm and brought 9 to the line AND he was lucky enough to hit 50% of the open receivers.  It's rare both are going to happen.  Most defenses aren't going to do that.  Pitt won't next time.  Then what is Tebow going to do?