Posted by AlCheez on 1/16/2013 3:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/16/2013 3:19:00 PM (view original):But it's not like Brady elevated these guys to star status and the Pats were an elite offensive team like the Colts and Saints back then. The Pats were no where near the offensive team they are now in their Super Bowl years. Even conceding that for a period of his career he had less offensive talent around him than many elite QBs, that doesn't really mean he did more with less, it could just mean the rest of his team was better.
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2013 3:02:00 PM (view original):The Pats definitely use Welker to his highest potential.
All I'm saying is many of the players we're mentioning started in the same place. A place determined by the guys that get paid a lot to determine that place. They miss on some(Brady/Leaf/Russell) but they hit on most. It just seems insane to think they missed on the players on the Saints/Colts but nailed the ones the Patriots got.
I do think the slot guys were not part of the NFL system until Martz made 3-4 WR sets part of the "normal" NFL. So it probably took awhile for the Welkers of the world to gain a foothold. Which is why someone like him could be overlooked and suddenly a star.
I should mention that the 2 major receivers that Brady had for his first 3 Super Bowls (aside from Deion Branch, who was a 2nd round pick), Troy Brown and David Givens, went in the 8th round, and went undrafted.
Let's remember, when Brady was winning Super Bowls, the Brady v. Manning debate was all about stats (Manning) vs. winning (Brady) because Brady wasn't putting anywhere near the numbers up. Once Moss/Welker arrived, Brady really closed up the stats debate.
Before the first Welker/Moss season, Brady had a QB rating of 88.4, 2 to 1 TD/INT ratio, completed 62% of his passes, and averaged 225 yards per game. Peyton for his career, has a QB rating of 95.7, had a TD/INT ratio of just over 2 to 1, completed 65% of his passes, and averaged 265 yards per game. Brady really wasn't too far off. Once Brady got Moss, and since then has had weapons, he's been much better than he was, and even better than Peyton stat-wise.
And the original argument was that Brady was overrated. Brady put up great numbers without the weapons, and won 3 Super Bowls.