Any ideas on strategies that hav been successful in the TOC?  I do pretty well with my open league $80M teams.  I have been a #1 seed in the $100M TOC twice in a row, but I keep getting knocked off by the #8 seed.  It seems like "depth" (and a great bullpen) helps me win league championships, but top-heavy teams quickly knock me out of the TOC.  Any thoughts?

5/1/2014 1:34 PM
1. get lucky
2. win your series in 3 straight so you'll have a fatigue advantage.
3. a controversial suggestion. I like to give my best players adequate rest before they get fatigued. If I lose in the first round no big deal, if I make to it the semi-finals I want to be in a position to win the whole thing.

seed # is meaningless. depth is important after the first round. try unbalanced depth.
5/1/2014 1:52 PM (edited)
Develop a starting rotation of Addie Joss clones, then act indignant when somebody calls you one of "those guys"
5/1/2014 1:58 PM

rbow923: You are absolutely right that seed # is meaningless.  I think you are saying I should keep getting back to the TOC with good teams and eventually I'll get lucky.  Since all the teams in the TOC are really good, that is probably sound advice.

5/1/2014 6:26 PM
evil_twin:  You either looked at my team, or you are psychic.  That is exactly what I did.  I got tired of losing to Addie Joss, so I have '07 and '08 in my starting rotation.  Worked great in the league--not so well in the TOC.
5/1/2014 6:29 PM
Posted by rbow923 on 5/1/2014 1:52:00 PM (view original):
1. get lucky
2. win your series in 3 straight so you'll have a fatigue advantage.
3. a controversial suggestion. I like to give my best players adequate rest before they get fatigued. If I lose in the first round no big deal, if I make to it the semi-finals I want to be in a position to win the whole thing.

seed # is meaningless. depth is important after the first round. try unbalanced depth.
#2 from rbow has been a major factor in most of my TOC championships...even better if you go 6-0!  (easier said than done)

Seriously, fatigue plays a large factor IMHO.  It isn't set up the same way as the regular season.

Good luck!

5/2/2014 4:27 AM
I can tell you there are ways to increase your chances at winning a TOC.  I haven't played as many games as a lot of other HOF on the site, but I do think I have been very successful in OL's.  Of the 103 seasons I have played, about 40 have been progressives and 36 have been in the WISC.  That leaves around 27 OL teams.  Of those 27 teams, 7 have won the TOC.  To give myself the best chance of winning, I try to go for these ideas:

1.  Get in the $80M TOC.  It is the easiest TOC to win.  About 75% of the teams are progressive teams, giving you a huge advantage.  To make sure you get in the $80M TOC, enter a team in an OL.  Use your AAA to your advantage, but at the 120 game mark make sure that all your AAA are in the AAA.  Having any AAA on your roster will bump you to the $90M TOC or higher.  

2.  Use the TOC fatigue system to your advantage.  As mentioned before, it is a different fatigue system and it is rough.  BUT there are ways to use to help you out. My bullpen has 6-7 low IP SP studs on it.  If you go all the way through the TOC, you can expect to use about 20-25% of a SP IP's. Keep those low IP SP in the bullpen until they pitch 3 IP of relief.  Then start them for a game and let them go 9 IP.  That allows you to use 12/27 IP, or about 45% of their IP.  So other teams are only getting 20-25% of their value, and now you are getting 45% value on some of your pitchers.  Another huge advantage.  

3.  This one is the most difficult to explain.  You need to balance depth in the regular season and top heavy pitching in the TOC.  In the regular season, I want to have two 300IP aces on top and an ok 400IP 3rd SP.  But in the TOC you don't want to be sending out a below average SP, every game counts.  So how do you balance needed depth for the regular season without wasting value on your bench in the TOC?  The waiver wire is the answer.  In the TOC you don't need a #3 pitcher because you have 7 low IP SP studs.  You can run your #1, #2 and then spot start a low IP SP.  So before the 120 game mark, drop your #3 pitcher on the WW.  But you can't just drop 400IP any more, there is a minimum IP required now.  So you need to have the cheapest IP on the bench without wasting too many roster spots.  I usually get two of the cheapest 150 IP pitchers out there.  You are losing about $3.2M of salary at the beginning of the season rostering these two pitchers, but you gain $9 when you drop your #3 SP around the deadline.  So how can you spend $9M on the WW without changing your entire roster?  Use the fact that anyone can play 1B in WIS without too much of a problem.  When drafting your team, don't draft a 1B.  Use your AAA players to fill in 1B spot until the 120 game mark.  Drop your #3 starter and pick up the best hitter available for your 1B.  Use whatever $ left on pitching spot that is now open.  So to summarize, you lose $3,2M but gain $9M at the 120 mark for a net gain of $5.8M.  Another huge advantage for your team.

Be aware that this is not an easy team to run at all.  It requires a lower budget offense of around $32M to start with since you are losing $3.2M at the beginning of the season.  You have to plan ahead on your pitching as well.  You are going to use a 3 man rotation for 3/4 of the seson and then go to a 2 man rotation for the last 42 games.  You need to plan ahead and keep your #1 and #2 on low enough pitchcount to switch to a 2 man rotation later.  It requires a lot of micro managing since you are using all of your AAA to the fullest for 120 games and don't have a 1B.  It can be difficult and even when run perfectly, you can still miss out on the playoffs.  You are not going to win over 100 games with this team, but 90 wins is a good goal.  But 90 wins in an OL isn't always eenough to get that WC spot.  But if you do get in the playoffs, you should have a lot of success.  
7/10/2014 12:21 AM (edited)
Posted by profcake on 7/10/2014 12:21:00 AM (view original):
I can tell you there are ways to increase your chances at winning a TOC.  I haven't played as many games as a lot of other HOF on the site, but I do think I have been very successful in OL's.  Of the 103 seasons I have played, about 40 have been progressives and 36 have been in the WISC.  That leaves around 27 OL teams.  Of those 27 teams, 7 have won the TOC.  To give myself the best chance of winning, I try to go for these ideas:

1.  Get in the $80M TOC.  It is the easiest TOC to win.  About 75% of the teams are progressive teams, giving you a huge advantage.  To make sure you get in the $80M TOC, enter a team in an OL.  Use your AAA to your advantage, but at the 120 game mark make sure that all your AAA are in the AAA.  Having any AAA on your roster will bump you to the $90M TOC or higher.  

2.  Use the TOC fatigue system to your advantage.  As mentioned before, it is a different fatigue system and it is rough.  BUT there are ways to use to help you out. My bullpen has 6-7 low IP SP studs on it.  If you go all the way through the TOC, you can expect to use about 20-25% of a SP IP's. Keep those low IP SP in the bullpen until they pitch 3 IP of relief.  Then start them for a game and let them go 9 IP.  That allows you to use 12/27 IP, or about 45% of their IP.  So other teams are only getting 20-25% of their value, and now you are getting 45% value on some of your pitchers.  Another huge advantage.  

3.  This one is the most difficult to explain.  You need to balance depth in the regular season and top heavy pitching in the TOC.  In the regular season, I want to have two 300IP aces on top and an ok 400IP 3rd SP.  But in the TOC you don't want to be sending out a below average SP, every game counts.  So how do you balance needed depth for the regular season without wasting value on your bench in the TOC?  The waiver wire is the answer.  In the TOC you don't need a #3 pitcher because you have 7 low IP SP studs.  You can run your #1, #2 and then spot start a low IP SP.  So before the 120 game mark, drop your #3 pitcher on the WW.  But you can't just drop 400IP any more, there is a minimum IP required now.  So you need to have the cheapest IP on the bench without wasting too many roster spots.  I usually get two of the cheapest 150 IP pitchers out there.  You are losing about $3.2M of salary at the beginning of the season rostering these two pitchers, but you gain $9 when you drop your #3 SP around the deadline.  So how can you spend $9M on the WW without changing your entire roster?  Use the fact that anyone can play 1B in WIS without too much of a problem.  When drafting your team, don't draft a 1B.  Use your AAA players to fill in 1B spot until the 120 game mark.  Drop your #3 starter and pick up the best hitter available for your 1B.  Use whatever $ left on pitching spot that is now open.  So to summarize, you lose $3,2M but gain $9M at the 120 mark for a net gain of $5.8M.  Another huge advantage for your team.

Be aware that this is not an easy team to run at all.  It requires a lower budget offense of around $32M to start with since you are losing $3.2M at the beginning of the season.  You have to plan ahead on your pitching as well.  You are going to use a 3 man rotation for 3/4 of the seson and then go to a 2 man rotation for the last 42 games.  You need to plan ahead and keep your #1 and #2 on low enough pitchcount to switch to a 2 man rotation later.  It requires a lot of micro managing since you are using all of your AAA to the fullest for 120 games and don't have a 1B.  It can be difficult and even when run perfectly, you can still miss out on the playoffs.  You are not going to win over 100 games with this team, but 90 wins is a good goal.  But 90 wins in an OL isn't always eenough to get that WC spot.  But if you do get in the playoffs, you should have a lot of success.  
I have just completed a regular season using this strategy. We got the #1 seed in the league with 107 wins (with resting for the final 16 games) and are fully rested for the playoffs, which start today. There are two other 100 win teams in my conference but with our short IP studs I am confident we will at least make it to the TOC.
7/4/2016 9:39 AM (edited)
Pitching:
Player SN T G GS CG SHO W L SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO OAV OBP SLG WHIP ERA
Young, Cy 1905 R 51 48 7 4 33 9 1 1 343.0 325 104 82 2 41 162 .245 .270 .292 1.07 2.15
Summers, Ed 1909 R 52 44 2 1 26 10 1 2 313.3 312 131 106 7 81 85 .256 .304 .336 1.25 3.04
Hettesheimer, Brennan (AAA/P) 2016 L 34 8 0 0 4 4 4 6 80.3 119 56 52 6 14 31 .344 .367 .471 1.66 5.83
Widmar, Al 1951 R 20 11 0 0 1 10 0 0 79.7 183 155 143 15 66 19 .442 .518 .643 3.13 16.15
McCabe, Tim 1915 R 19 4 0 0 5 1 2 2 43.3 36 17 15 3 11 19 .217 .276 .283 1.08 3.12
Mcclay, Dedrick (AAA/P) 2016 L 39 0 0 0 2 0 12 12 43.3 47 17 16 2 29 34 .275 .383 .339 1.75 3.32
Espinosa, Nino 1981 R 14 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 43.0 61 41 30 4 24 13 .321 .394 .495 1.98 6.28
McDowell, Jack 1987 R 22 0 0 0 2 1 5 6 31.3 17 6 2 0 4 16 .152 .186 .170 .67 .57
Alexander, Pete 1918 R 26 0 0 0 4 2 4 4 29.7 31 14 14 0 9 16 .263 .313 .314 1.35 4.25
Hill, Rich 2015 L 21 0 0 0 2 0 3 3 29.0 20 3 3 0 6 28 .192 .243 .221 .90 .93
Douglas, Phil 1915 R 20 0 0 0 1 1 1 2 26.3 23 3 3 0 6 12 .235 .286 .235 1.10 1.03
Milacki, Bob 1988 R 20 0 0 0 0 0 2 3 25.7 9 5 4 0 12 19 .105 .222 .105 .82 1.40
Walsh, Ed 1915 R 23 0 0 0 2 2 5 10 25.0 25 14 14 0 14 13 .253 .353 .273 1.56 5.04
Mitchell, Roy 1918 R 5 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 14.0 10 3 3 0 0 5 .192 .192 .231 .71 1.93
Maroth, Mike 2007 L 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.3 8 5 5 2 1 3 .571 .600 1.000 3.86 19.29
Chesbro, Jack 1903 R 46 46 3 1 23 14 0 0 324.0 380 172 141 8 96 108 .286 .336 .359 1.47 3.92
TEAM TOTALS -- -- 414 162 12 6 107 55 41 52 1,453.3 1606 746 633 49 414 583 .275 .325 .354 1.39 3.92
7/4/2016 8:25 AM
Hitting:
Player SN B G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO HBP SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS STRK L STRK
Vizquel, Omar 1999 S 162 690 128 218 46 8 5 127 73 50 3 47 14 .316 .382 .428 .809 2 16
McGee, Willie 1985 S 152 668 136 251 36 20 5 164 46 81 2 87 21 .376 .415 .512 .927 12 17
Hoy, Dummy 1888 L 162 659 144 181 20 6 3 83 99 66 8 110 37 .275 .374 .337 .710 1 10
Alomar, Roberto 1992 S 150 649 166 239 29 17 6 96 95 36 5 65 23 .368 .452 .493 .945 1 23
Raines, Tim 1989 S 160 619 122 192 41 8 10 125 105 44 1 40 11 .310 .407 .451 .857 1 10
Roberts, Bip 1992 S 150 595 118 209 41 16 3 138 81 41 0 53 21 .351 .426 .489 .916 4 17
Carter, Gary 1975 R 145 553 83 165 25 1 17 115 77 82 3 0 0 .298 .386 .439 .826 2 13
Houk, Sean (AAA/P) 2016 S 82 311 36 77 19 8 1 48 28 55 2 0 0 .248 .313 .370 .683 0 6
Cobb, Ty 1924 L 43 180 48 54 7 2 2 40 22 5 0 0 0 .300 .371 .394 .765 1 16
Car, Steve (AAA/P) 2016 L 61 159 19 36 5 1 1 23 7 8 0 0 0 .226 .256 .289 .545 0 7
7/4/2016 8:26 AM
Note that this team was from the last round of dynamic pricing. Attempting this now would require either a slightly worse lineup or slightly worse pitching.
7/4/2016 8:28 AM
Chesbro was dropped at the transaction deadline in exchange for Cobb and Mitchell
7/4/2016 8:29 AM
One thing I did differently than profcake is that I used normal pitchcounts for Summers and Young (not shortened ones) and, instead, moved Chesbro up a start in the rotation whenever I could, allowing him to accumulate more starts than Summers or Young during his time on the team and saving valuable innings for Summers and Young for the stretch run.

I also spent slightly more on offense than he recommended.

I think these two things contributed to me winning as many games as I did instead of only winning 90ish and needing to get lucky to make the playoffs. If I had not, and had only won 90, I would not have made the playoffs in this league.

(For what it's worth, another factor that probably contributed to my win total was the fact that one of the divisions in the conference had all four teams lose over 90 games, but I feel that is at least canceled out by the fact that we were able to rest so much down the stretch.)
7/4/2016 1:45 PM (edited)
I will post an update here both at the end of the playoffs and again after the TOC, if I make it that far.
7/4/2016 9:02 AM
It sucked having to put Mcclay back in AAA as he was leading the Rookie of the Year voting at the time. He was a valuable asset during the first 120 games.
7/4/2016 9:38 AM

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