Still absolutely against the idea of not getting my own recruits until season 2.  I cannot stand that fact whatsoever.  It's a deal breaker personally.  I think they're better ways to help out newer coaches and honestly think this hurts newer coaches in the long run anyways.  As well as coaches planning on leaving still have no incentive to recruit.

Under this idea is the 2 budgets between scouting and recruiting the same?  How will budgets go for EE/transfers for those schools in the 2nd period?

I think this is a big disadvantage for schools who have a lot of transfers and ee's as I assume the majority of good prospects will have been taken and the ones that havent are a big battle to get and that means the 2nd recruiting period you have a lot less of the good talent for those schools now with a bunch of openings

I was thinking of something similar to what tooslim mentions. 

You have the 2nd recruiting period before the season after new coach signings. The following would then happen

- When looking to move to a new school or if it's your first school, you can already see who has been signed by the school and who is considering them.
- Players that have already signed in the 1st recruiting period will either stay committed to the school or they can reopen the recruitment. The new coach could certainly resign the player if they wish and would already have some 'considering credit'. But these decommitted players would be added to the pool of the 2nd recruiting period.
- The new coach has the option to not honor the commitment of the previous coach with no penalty to them. Again, these 'cut' players would be added to the pool.

The problem I see is how to handle scouting budget and information for coaches switching schools.
-If you're moving to a different school, do you retain your first recruiting and scouting budget?
-If moving to another school, you 'mentally' can retain scouting information. Even if you don't have the budget to scout, you already scouted players so you know who to go after. I think this could be accommodated by not giving any more scouting money to players switching schools? Basically spend all your money before you leave your current school. Use it or lose it!
- If you had signed players at your previous school, will you already have some considering credit on that player at your new school during recruiting period 2? This is pretty typical in RL where players follow coaches around.

small note - please do away with the current 2 hour first cycle.  Especially the first cycle should be extra long - allow pre loading of moves even if the cycle hasnt yet officially started

do this for both of the two recruiting periods - as it stands, the narrow first cycle focuses the significance of first mover action

It's possible to move the 2nd recruiting period to after the job period, but you'd still be at the mercy of the previous coach as to whether any spots would be open.

Posted by seble on 9/14/2015 1:24:00 PM (view original):
It's possible to move the 2nd recruiting period to after the job period, but you'd still be at the mercy of the previous coach as to whether any spots would be open.

Yeah, that's why you could get the option to release those players from the commitments and recruit 'your' guys.

Coaches who take a new job NEED to be able to recruit their own players that first season, otherwise there really is no reason to ever take on a new job. It'll just be a lost season. I know most first seasons of a rebuild are bad, but at least MY players have the ability to grow during that bad season.

Let's go forward on the assumption that job changes will take place before the second recruiting period unless a major issue arises from that. 

So now technically you are recruiting from 2 schools possibly?  Is it the chance that players will follow the coach?(ala Shaka and Tevin Mack)

Theoretically lets say I am coaching Providence at an A level prestige in the first cycle I have 2 players committed both top 10 players.  Lets say a C Ohio State team opens up and I move, will there be any chance the players follow me even if the drop in prestige is to the point where Ohio State would have no chance of landing those 2 top 10 players if they didn't follow me.

I think a lot of coaches especially the D3 level will not even bother recruiting that first period if they plan to move up right away.

I doubt we'd go so far as having player "follow" a former coach.

How would budgets work if you switch schools since there is only 1 scouting and 1 recruiting budget?

That's still a question.  I would assume the new coach taking over would start from scratch, with some type of budget reset.

I don't know if I missed this or it hasn't been said, but is scouting cyclical like current scouting trips or is it instant like current FSS since it was mentioned scouting will not play a factor in recruiting it could easily be made instant.  I think making it cyclical also would give advantages to coaches with more time available as they have more ability to scout players and hold camps etc than those with less time.

I also want to know is the changes to the recruiting timeline more in effect for making it easier on new coaches(which I don't think it does anyways), or more to make it more "realistic"

And will there be anything done to change the fact that you will not bring in your own recruits until season 2.

I really like the proposed changes, especially with the amendment that job changes happen before recruiting period #2 (which I guess is no major surprise given my comments in the other thread). 

One thing I would like to request/emphasize: in order to make this work well, I think it needs to be harder to get recruits to sign in recruiting period #1 than it normally is to get them to sign. Players would not sign with you in the first recruiting period unless they feel you're the best they can do (for instance, if you're a D3 coach, they're in the middle of your D3 list and aren't a D2 pulldown or something) or you make them feel like the most important recruit in the world (that is, you spend a lot of effort on them). On this model, not all recruits who commit during period #1 sign during period #1. Some players are committed during period #1 but wait to sign until period #2, basically waiting on the off chance that someone else wants to offer them. 

I think this does two things: (1) it ensures that there are good players left for recruiting period #2, and (2) it adds another dimension to the strategy of the game. Do I spend the extra effort to lock down that player, or do I allocate it elsewhere and hope nobody tries to fight me in the late signing period. 

On new coaches being screwed by the previous coach's poor recruiting: (1) it's realistic, and (2) this actually fits with one of the original desiderata of not putting too much pressure on the new coach immediately. The new coach could either be helped or hurt by the previous coach's effort, but it's not all on them immediately. This is helpful for new coaches. But there is something for them to do immediately, so an old coach is not stuck doing nothing in year one. Presumably, sim recruiting will be designed so that it doesn't screw all new coaches. 

I think Seble said the base plan right now is to do round 2 of recruiting after job changes so it sounds like you'll be able to get your guys on the team during the 1st season. 

Seems like there are still a bunch of things to figure out though regarding how that will work but I think most people prefer that idea.

Posted by tarvolon on 9/14/2015 3:11:00 PM (view original):
I really like the proposed changes, especially with the amendment that job changes happen before recruiting period #2 (which I guess is no major surprise given my comments in the other thread). 

One thing I would like to request/emphasize: in order to make this work well, I think it needs to be harder to get recruits to sign in recruiting period #1 than it normally is to get them to sign. Players would not sign with you in the first recruiting period unless they feel you're the best they can do (for instance, if you're a D3 coach, they're in the middle of your D3 list and aren't a D2 pulldown or something) or you make them feel like the most important recruit in the world (that is, you spend a lot of effort on them). On this model, not all recruits who commit during period #1 sign during period #1. Some players are committed during period #1 but wait to sign until period #2, basically waiting on the off chance that someone else wants to offer them. 

I think this does two things: (1) it ensures that there are good players left for recruiting period #2, and (2) it adds another dimension to the strategy of the game. Do I spend the extra effort to lock down that player, or do I allocate it elsewhere and hope nobody tries to fight me in the late signing period. 

On new coaches being screwed by the previous coach's poor recruiting: (1) it's realistic, and (2) this actually fits with one of the original desiderata of not putting too much pressure on the new coach immediately. The new coach could either be helped or hurt by the previous coach's effort, but it's not all on them immediately. This is helpful for new coaches. But there is something for them to do immediately, so an old coach is not stuck doing nothing in year one. Presumably, sim recruiting will be designed so that it doesn't screw all new coaches. 

I like the thoughts on two signing periods.  On recruits that wait to sign; this would certainly add another dimension to recruiting.

A hope would be that recruits would be up front with periodic and fairly clear messages during recruiting. Messages along the lines of " I like your school but I am going to be waiting on a bigger school for *a while* since I think I can play D2" or "I'm getting really close to signing. I'm going to give schools another 'x' amount of days/hours to show me some love and then I plan to commit" would be really helpful.

If coaches have no idea of when recruits are going to sign, I could foresee some coaches getting really t.o.'d if a D2 school "poaches" a recruit that had been considering a D3 school for 14 days throughout period #1 and into period #2. 

Obviously this happens in RL; a recruit commits to a lower level D1 Big 6 school and then Calipari promises that he will turn said player into a 1st round draft pick...however, it could be really frustrating if you are trying to build up a low prestige program at any level and recruits wait days and days to sign giving other teams chances to jump in late.