Scouting Trips - Ridiculousness Topic

antonsirius
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Posted by kmasonbx on 4/21/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 4/21/2011 1:25:00 PM (view original):
You're taking a gamble on an international's potential anyway since you can't FSS them, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about here.
Huh? That's why he's doing scouting trips to find out his potential. And he's saying it's riduclous that you can't control what you want your assistant coach to look at, telling me how well a SG blocks shots and not telling me how his ball handling or shooting are is silly.
No, he's doing scouting trips to recruit the kid and find out his potential.

If he wants to ensure that he gets all the scouting info he wants, he can spend more money on scout trips. If he doesn't want to spend that kind of money, maybe he should stay away from internationals.

On the rare occasions I go after an international, I still do scout trips in batches of 10 precisely so I can make sure I get all the potential info I need. If you're being cheap and trying to get away with only doing 5 or so, you get no sympathy from me.

If you want to introduce a targeted scouting report that gives you every potential message, I don't think that's a terrible idea. But the cost on it should be huge and it should offer no more recruiting 'points' than doing a single normal scouting trip.

There's a whole lot of things in recruiting that are 'silly'. This is one 'silly' thing that actually has a big impact in terms of the cost/benefit equation in recruiting. Offering an inexpensive way to get all the potential info you want on a player would drastically change the way coaches approach recruiting, and not in my mind for the better.
4/21/2011 2:35 PM
antonsirius
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/21/2011 1:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kmasonbx on 4/21/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 4/21/2011 1:25:00 PM (view original):
You're taking a gamble on an international's potential anyway since you can't FSS them, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about here.
Huh? That's why he's doing scouting trips to find out his potential. And he's saying it's riduclous that you can't control what you want your assistant coach to look at, telling me how well a SG blocks shots and not telling me how his ball handling or shooting are is silly.
zing!
Not so much, no.
4/21/2011 2:37 PM
tianyi7886
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10 doesn't guarantee that you get the information you want, and neither does 15. One of my D3 pulldowns for my Menlo rebuild had 15 SVs, and his Reb and Blk were not covered in any of the 15 SVs. That's a sign of the scouting system being a little flawed. 
4/21/2011 2:39 PM
antonsirius
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"batches of 10". Plural.
4/21/2011 2:49 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by antonsirius on 4/21/2011 2:49:00 PM (view original):
"batches of 10". Plural.
I'm D3, 3 batches of ten and I'm out of cash. 
4/21/2011 2:55 PM
antonsirius
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Well, yeah. That's what I mean by the cost/benefit equation. At D3 you can't really afford to get perfect knowledge of anyone's potential, at least not as a matter of course.
4/21/2011 3:00 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by antonsirius on 4/21/2011 3:00:00 PM (view original):
Well, yeah. That's what I mean by the cost/benefit equation. At D3 you can't really afford to get perfect knowledge of anyone's potential, at least not as a matter of course.
You really send SVs 10 at a time for potential? That's 7k a pop, which is extreme even with a good amount of open scholarships for d1. 
4/21/2011 3:01 PM
antonsirius
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No, I send SVs 10 at a time for recruiting effort and potential.

This was a kid I signed from almost 600 miles away in Rupp. 20 SVs is really light for me, but I was being cautious in case a bigger school came in after I started spending on him.

4/18/2011 scholarship offer $100 
4/18/2011 campus visit $1,302 
4/18/2011 home visits - (3) $2,325 
4/18/2011 campus visit $1,302 
4/18/2011 home visit $775 
4/18/2011 scouting trips - (10) $5,580 
4/18/2011 scouting trips - (10) $5,580 
4/18/2011 call current coach $10 
4/18/2011 letter $15 
4/18/2011 phone call $10 
  Total $16,999 


This is a more typical spread for me... this kid was 220 miles away.

4/17/2011 scholarship offer $100 
4/17/2011 campus visit $1,027 
4/17/2011 scouting trips - (10) $2,690 
4/17/2011 home visit $419 
4/17/2011 scouting trips - (10) $2,690 
4/17/2011 scouting trips - (10) $2,690 
4/17/2011 call current coach $10 
4/17/2011 scouting trips - (10) $2,690 
4/17/2011 letter $15 
4/17/2011 phone call $10 
4/17/2011 Added to Watch List N/A 
  Total $12,341

4/21/2011 3:13 PM
reinsel
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Yeah, but I am not sure I want to sign an international until I see his potential, and spending $7000 on someone who MIGHT be good seems steep when I can scout the entire USA for $7000 via FSS.

I'd be wiling to pay $700 for a international SV if I could target it to see just 1 specific potential rating.  Like $700 for Rebounding.  Or you can choose for 4 random ones.
4/21/2011 3:19 PM
tianyi7886
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A little different from what you posted earlier, with you saying you send batches of 10 even on international recruits. For the 1st guy, that would add 3k to your recruiting cost; for the 2nd guy, a whopping 22k. And as reinsel said, you did those recruiting actions knowing the potential already. Dropping batches of 10 SV(7k per batch) w/o knowing anything is not smart. 

You recruit differently from most coaches, but to each his own. 
4/21/2011 3:20 PM
dahsdebater
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In what world are there so few openings and recruits that you can scout the entire country for $7K?  It would cost me over $17K in Knight right now, and that's after I already scouted the biggest state.
4/21/2011 3:23 PM
kmasonbx
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Posted by antonsirius on 4/21/2011 2:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kmasonbx on 4/21/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 4/21/2011 1:25:00 PM (view original):
You're taking a gamble on an international's potential anyway since you can't FSS them, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about here.
Huh? That's why he's doing scouting trips to find out his potential. And he's saying it's riduclous that you can't control what you want your assistant coach to look at, telling me how well a SG blocks shots and not telling me how his ball handling or shooting are is silly.
No, he's doing scouting trips to recruit the kid and find out his potential.

If he wants to ensure that he gets all the scouting info he wants, he can spend more money on scout trips. If he doesn't want to spend that kind of money, maybe he should stay away from internationals.

On the rare occasions I go after an international, I still do scout trips in batches of 10 precisely so I can make sure I get all the potential info I need. If you're being cheap and trying to get away with only doing 5 or so, you get no sympathy from me.

If you want to introduce a targeted scouting report that gives you every potential message, I don't think that's a terrible idea. But the cost on it should be huge and it should offer no more recruiting 'points' than doing a single normal scouting trip.

There's a whole lot of things in recruiting that are 'silly'. This is one 'silly' thing that actually has a big impact in terms of the cost/benefit equation in recruiting. Offering an inexpensive way to get all the potential info you want on a player would drastically change the way coaches approach recruiting, and not in my mind for the better.
Are you even being serious? How can you not think the scouting trip system is setup awful? When a coach goes to scout a player they are looking at their core skills first and if anything else jumps out that isn't a core then they take notice. So if you are looking at a guard you will look for his athleticism/speed/quickness, ball handling, passing, shooting and defense. Anything else that jumps out is a plus. There is no reason it should take even 4 scouting trips which indicates going to watch 4 different games before I'm finally told how well a guard passes or how well a big man rebounds. Those should be known after the first half of the 1st game you watch. If an assistant coach takes 4 games to pay attention to how a big man rebounds he wouldn't have a job.
4/21/2011 3:27 PM
antonsirius
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If you want to address the actual points I made, kmason, go right ahead.
4/21/2011 3:37 PM
dacj501
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/21/2011 1:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 4/21/2011 1:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zsap on 4/21/2011 10:05:00 AM (view original):
I never used one, but what do personality tests tell you. Not willing to do one at D3, but just curious. Anybody ever used the Psychologist Opinion.
Deleted the email accidentally, but I had posted this to our CC a couple weeks ago - just had to dig for it...


Please find the results of the personality test you ordered for: Ali Clark

o Intelligence: Normal
o Self-Esteem: High
o Self-Confidence: Very High
o Self-Control: Very High
o Libido: High
o Patience/Restraint: High
o Materialism: Low
o Motivation: Normal
So high patience/restraint, low materialism = no EE?
I hope so - well, that and the fact that we are yet to prove we can get out of the first round, so lack of success might help keep him around too...
4/21/2011 3:43 PM
zsap
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I don't get what libido will determine. Why is it even on their? Anybody use a psychologist opinion or are those crap?
4/21/2011 10:05 PM
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