Posted by udm_mike on 8/12/2011 10:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ike1024 on 8/12/2011 10:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by swiners on 8/12/2011 10:03:00 AM (view original):
kmason, how many teams are ok? Is it ok if I have 6 or 8 in D1 and how far do they need to be apart? Just curious what the cutoff number is for teams in the same division in the same world?

You understand that "could" isn't synonymous with "do," "does," or "are," right?  Just because someone could cheat, doesn't mean that they are cheating.  Everyone acknowledges that multiple teams could (very easily) facilitate cheating.  But if you don't ever recruit from a state that your other team has FSSed, how could you possibly cheat?  In fact, as km said earlier, in the interest of avoiding the appearance of impropriety, it probably costs me a recruit from time to time.

Just because you own a gun does not mean you shoot people.  Just because you have a chubby does mean you rape people.  Just because you own multiple teams does not mean you share scouting info between them.

Freudian slip on the second sentence?

I was simply asking a serious question. How many teams would you guys feel uncomfortable with for one owner to have in the same division in the same world or does it really not matter, can someone just answer that please?

It doesn't matter to me as long as one team has literally no avoidable interaction with the other (i.e. postseason games).  At some point, that will be impossible.  My personal preference is to not have more than one team in one division, but that's just because I think it's more fun that way.  

Posted by ike1024 on 8/12/2011 10:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by udm_mike on 8/12/2011 10:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ike1024 on 8/12/2011 10:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by swiners on 8/12/2011 10:03:00 AM (view original):
kmason, how many teams are ok? Is it ok if I have 6 or 8 in D1 and how far do they need to be apart? Just curious what the cutoff number is for teams in the same division in the same world?

You understand that "could" isn't synonymous with "do," "does," or "are," right?  Just because someone could cheat, doesn't mean that they are cheating.  Everyone acknowledges that multiple teams could (very easily) facilitate cheating.  But if you don't ever recruit from a state that your other team has FSSed, how could you possibly cheat?  In fact, as km said earlier, in the interest of avoiding the appearance of impropriety, it probably costs me a recruit from time to time.

Just because you own a gun does not mean you shoot people.  Just because you have a chubby does mean you rape people.  Just because you own multiple teams does not mean you share scouting info between them.

Freudian slip on the second sentence?

That's none of your business and I'll thank you to stay out of my personal affairs.  lol

Bumped. Still waiting for an answer... where is everyone that responded before????

I mean, personally, I think people should be limited to one team per world.  But that's just me - WiS has long maintained that this is not the policy.

Personally,  have no problem with 2 teams in one division in the same world.  More than that is too much, IMO.  I personally have one, but at one time I had two teams.  I think it was before FSS came around though.  If you have two teams, its on you to be honest.  It's a game and if you have to cheat, I think its pathetic.

As long as you're not cheating I don't really care. You can have 6 teams for all I care, as long as all the players you sign for each team are from states you scouted then whatever.

Posted by kmasonbx on 8/12/2011 11:18:00 AM (view original):
As long as you're not cheating I don't really care. You can have 6 teams for all I care, as long as all the players you sign for each team are from states you scouted then whatever.

km - I think there are about a half dozen advantages to having multiple teams:

lets say you have west virginia and ohio, which should overlap some in terms of territory.  your wv team is much better.  While scouting for WV honestly, you come across a PF, who is not quite good enough for WV, but would be great for Ohio.  At this point, you have not scouted the state with Ohio.  How do you proceed?

Also, would you ever schedule big east teams with ohio in non conf, if so, you get a nice preview on how to gameplan for a WV conf opponent?

The biggest advantage I see, is simply getting a feel for how recruiting is going, and how good recruits are by getting to look at two sets of data at once, I found this to be a huge advantage when doing two teams at once.  The first time I noticed this was when I helped a guy out who was in the hospital by running his d3 team while I was still in d3 too, getting that second group of data made recruiting much easier.

if you answered the first ? you would only pick a player in WV if you scouted it ahead of time, if you scout the same state with two teams, how do you pick which team gets the better choice? 

Also, same scenerio, how do you justify ohio and WV are colluding, in an implied agreement to 'draft'.

Finally, how would you handle competitive recruiting, do you think it is fair for ohio to compete with any big east schools, or WV to compete with any mac schools?  I don't?

This is not meant to single you out, simply trying to sort out the issues!

When schools are the close it can cause lots of grey areas, I agree. But a couple of the issues you bring up can hurt you having 2 teams that close. Say I make a decision that I'd never battle a school from opposite conference and a MAC school is on a 1 star guy that has a ton of potential and rates to end up as a 850 type guy and I have no chance of winning the battle with Ohio but it would be easy to get him with WVU but since I don't want things to look bad I let the MAC school have him.
 
I always scout Ohio with WVU, so in this example that would obviously be an overlapping state and for this example lets say both schools have the same prestige again I'd be hurting myself by picking which school gets which player. For example I need a SG and a SF with both teams and the best SG and SF that I can get with WVU is in Ohio, and I can also get at least 1 of them with Ohio but instead of getting both with WVU I decide to take the SF with WVU and get the SG with Ohio. Of course it helps Ohio but it hurts WVU.

I think the gameplanning aspect isn't a big deal at all, simply because both teams will be different and what you can learn from actually simming 1 game is so minute compared to what you learn from looking over your opponents roster, checking the stats,reading some boxscores and checking the settings for those games. Let's say in the Ohio, WVU example with Ohio I had a PG with 99ath/92sp/99D and a SF with 83ath/57sp/77D and at WVU my PG is 77ath/88sp/84D and my SF is 92ath/71sp/97D and I play Georgetown in NC play with Ohio and G'Town's 3rd leading scorer is their SF and their PG is their leading scorer but because my Ohio PG is such a good defender and my SF is mediocore on that side of the ball Georgetown gives the SF more distro than the PG but against WVU his PG would have the much higher distro. So playing Georgetown with Ohio would give me no real advantage simply because the gameplan they would use against my 2 teams would be a lot different because of the personel.  

Posted by oldresorter on 8/12/2011 12:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kmasonbx on 8/12/2011 11:18:00 AM (view original):
As long as you're not cheating I don't really care. You can have 6 teams for all I care, as long as all the players you sign for each team are from states you scouted then whatever.

km - I think there are about a half dozen advantages to having multiple teams:

lets say you have west virginia and ohio, which should overlap some in terms of territory.  your wv team is much better.  While scouting for WV honestly, you come across a PF, who is not quite good enough for WV, but would be great for Ohio.  At this point, you have not scouted the state with Ohio.  How do you proceed?

Also, would you ever schedule big east teams with ohio in non conf, if so, you get a nice preview on how to gameplan for a WV conf opponent?

The biggest advantage I see, is simply getting a feel for how recruiting is going, and how good recruits are by getting to look at two sets of data at once, I found this to be a huge advantage when doing two teams at once.  The first time I noticed this was when I helped a guy out who was in the hospital by running his d3 team while I was still in d3 too, getting that second group of data made recruiting much easier.

if you answered the first ? you would only pick a player in WV if you scouted it ahead of time, if you scout the same state with two teams, how do you pick which team gets the better choice? 

Also, same scenerio, how do you justify ohio and WV are colluding, in an implied agreement to 'draft'.

Finally, how would you handle competitive recruiting, do you think it is fair for ohio to compete with any big east schools, or WV to compete with any mac schools?  I don't?

This is not meant to single you out, simply trying to sort out the issues!

OR, when you have two teams in the same world, they are not supposed to be geographically close to one another. (Right now I just have a single team in Allen and Rupp, but at some points I had two in Allen. And one of the reasons I chose Montana was to be really far away from my other team.) Regardless, I think this nullifies your WVU/Ohio example.

I think the playing a team in non-con to scout them example is somewhere between almost meaningless and totally meaningless. In real life, that's an advantage. Here, there's really no difference in taking a look at your conference opponent did in previous games against other opponents vs. if one of those games was against your alias. Just don't see that having an impact.

The bottom line for me is that WIS allows it, and I do think that as long as the teams are geographically separated that the actual advantages are virtually nil.

kmason, you realize that your 1st paragraph illistrates perfectly part of the problem don't you? So you aren't gaining a competitive advantage, and maybe are taking a disadvantage, but now every team in the MAC has the luxury of knowing they won't have to worry about a nearby BCS school going after their recrutis. That is a nice bit of peace of mind, and obviously skews fair and balanced recruiting. Multiply this across everywhere there is any overlap from other coaches and it does make things less than fair for everyone. I know why folks have multiple teams, and it is rarely for nefarious purposes, but it is still less than optimal IMHO lets just say.

kmason -- I respect you as a coach and am certainly not accusing you of wrongdoing, but I absolutely do not think you should be allowed to have neighboring teams in Ohio and West Virginia.

Posted by jbasnight on 8/8/2011 9:00:00 AM (view original):

(NOTE: I'm trying very hard not to be whiny, and I don't want to go all vegaskevin here, but at the same time I don't really feel like throwing my money away to a game whose rules make it so difficult for a large portion of its players to compete. So I sent the following to CS this morning.)

Since the new recruit generation was introduced last year, a huge gap has developed in D1 between the BCS teams and everyone else. Because a small percentage of recruits are so far superior to the rest, and because the engine was tweaked so that game results would more closely track player ratings, it has become much more difficult for non-BCS teams to compete. A Sweet 16 appearance is the most those teams can realistically hope for.

In many worlds, this gap is compounded by coaches flocking to one or two BCS conferences, putting them head and shoulders above everyone else. The effects of conference prestige and recruiting dollars (which have long been in the game) combined with the new recruit generation means that teams in those superconferences can stuff their rosters with 4- and 5-star recruits, and the teams in other conferences have very little chance to compete.

As an example: In Allen, the ACC has long been the best BCS conference. I spent several seasons at Villanova in Allen prior to the current recruit-generation method, and even though I was in the ACC's backyard I was able to compete--I felt like I had a chance to build an NT title-contending team. I have since moved to Kentucky, a much higher-baseline prestige program. However, the ACC's strength means that those teams head into recruiting with budgets almost always some multiple of mine. That greatly reduces my chances of landing a top-10 recruit, which in turn reduces my team's chances of competing head-to-head with any ACC teams. Thus, at this point I feel like I have less chance than ever to realistically compete at the highest level.

This situation does not seem good for the long-term health of Hoops Dynasty. I am not the only coach who feels this way, as a look through the forums and coaches' corners will illustrate. Are there any plans to change the way recruits are generated?

How many NON-BCS teams make it to the elite 8 in real life?

How many NON Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina teams are going to sign the big talent in real life.

It seems to me (a guy who is coaching at 4 Div-1A entry level teams right now in 4 worlds) that the game tracks exactly as I would expect.

If I (at IUPUI or Dartmouth or Morris Brown or Portland) am getting into the top 32 teams by winning my division and winning my first tourney game, I have had a GREAT season.  Just like those schools would consider that a great season in real life.  If I want to compete for a national title every season, I need to move to a top tier school in the SEC or the Big East or one of the other conferences.

Cleveland State should not be competing every year with Duke or Kentucky or (pick your super high prestige BCS team) ...

At least that is how I see it.

There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.