Nice language gill, says everything I need to know about you, have a nice day.

Posted by oldresorter on 8/12/2011 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 1:16:00 PM (view original):
kmason -- I respect you as a coach and am certainly not accusing you of wrongdoing, but I absolutely do not think you should be allowed to have neighboring teams in Ohio and West Virginia.

so why was my earlier example so irrelevant - my message was addressed to KM - who I have had a bit of an ongoing FRIENDLY discussion with all the way back to our coaches corner about having multiple ID's in relative proximity - I carefully chose WV and Ohio because of their relevance to KM and myself - I would pick others to try to explore this issue with you?  I told KM on our coaches corner a week or two ago, that he should check with CS to approve having two d1 teams that might be considered too close.  I also told him that CS approval would cover his butt if someone attacks his integrity.  Let's face it, gil is getting attacked pretty hard here, and IMO he is as honest a coach as this game has, so having multiple ID's does set you up for scrutiny, deserved or not. 

Earlier  in this thread, I stated if cs is ok with any case of muyltiple id's so Iam I, but if I were in charge, it would be one coach, one world, one team.  The posting here since then only strengthens my conviction on that.  Of course, girt I am sure you would join the many out there who are glad I am not in charge - LOL

OR, I think I said that I didn't think your example was relevant unless the two teams were close geographically, and his are. If they're close geographically, that (a) makes a huge difference and (b) is against what WIS has stated is allowable.

Posted by hughesjr on 8/12/2011 1:44:00 PM (view original):
There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.

I will be polite and simply call your post uninformed.

There are plenty of reasons. I can speak for myself (and I know many others have experienced this) ... my first HD team was W Conn State in Allen under daalter. When I moved up, I really wanted to keep WConn, so I started a dalter alias (tricky, I know) to keep WConn. That's a perfectly reasonable response, and I know many who have done the same. 

I've subsequently had two teams in Allen at different points in large part because that's where I was qualified to move up and qualified for non-D3 teams. (On a side note, I wonder if anyone has take more DI teams to the F4 in the same world; I have five in Allen -- Michigan State, UNC, Northwestern, Long Beach State and Montana.) 

There are plenty of other reasons, but that was my personal one. Your assertion that the only reason to have two teams in a world is too cheat is, well ... uninformed.

 

Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 5:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 8/12/2011 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 1:16:00 PM (view original):
kmason -- I respect you as a coach and am certainly not accusing you of wrongdoing, but I absolutely do not think you should be allowed to have neighboring teams in Ohio and West Virginia.

so why was my earlier example so irrelevant - my message was addressed to KM - who I have had a bit of an ongoing FRIENDLY discussion with all the way back to our coaches corner about having multiple ID's in relative proximity - I carefully chose WV and Ohio because of their relevance to KM and myself - I would pick others to try to explore this issue with you?  I told KM on our coaches corner a week or two ago, that he should check with CS to approve having two d1 teams that might be considered too close.  I also told him that CS approval would cover his butt if someone attacks his integrity.  Let's face it, gil is getting attacked pretty hard here, and IMO he is as honest a coach as this game has, so having multiple ID's does set you up for scrutiny, deserved or not. 

Earlier  in this thread, I stated if cs is ok with any case of muyltiple id's so Iam I, but if I were in charge, it would be one coach, one world, one team.  The posting here since then only strengthens my conviction on that.  Of course, girt I am sure you would join the many out there who are glad I am not in charge - LOL

OR, I think I said that I didn't think your example was relevant unless the two teams were close geographically, and his are. If they're close geographically, that (a) makes a huge difference and (b) is against what WIS has stated is allowable.

You sure you're following this closely enough Daalter?  Mason's teams are in West Virginia and TEXAS.  The Ohio/West Virginia duo is one that OR used as an example.  I would dare say that most people wouldn't consider West Virginia and Texas as being particularly close geographically.   Unless I'm misinterpreting the "and his are", part of your post.  If so, I apologize......

Posted by milkamania on 8/12/2011 3:48:00 PM (view original):
Gill, if I may ask a yes or no question without making any judgements as I am fine with 2 teams in the same world as long as CS says it is within the rules.   If I am not mistaken, your 2 teams in Tark are Texas A&M and Kentucky.   The question is, do you ever FSS scout the same state with both schools?  Given that Tennessee, Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, etc can easily be recruited by both, I am curious.  Again, I don't mean to sound accusatory, as I said, I have no problem with it, but I am curious.  Same question would apply to anyone else with multiple teams in the same world?

milk - great question. and no worries - i am more than happy to explain my system and your question does not offend me in the slightest.

here is my policy - if my teams are so close that i have overlapping regions (where i have to scout the same state on both), i refuse to have them, because of the potential for unintentionally giving myself an advantage. so i maintain "safety" by following two simple rules:
1) never scout the same state on both schools
2) never recruit a player i have not scouted

other than internationals, this means that i cannot possibly use information from one school to benefit the other. even if i was recruiting with say UK, and looked at arkansas, i could notice a player and then end up scouting on a&m when i may not have done so. so, strictly speaking, even if i scouted say arkansas on both schools, i could have used information from one to the advantage of the other.

therefore, i segregate the states from the start. i don't want to reveal too much about my recruiting strategy but suffice it to say that i generally will check out the border states without FSS on either, and based on the scholarship needs and possibly who has been local recruits, i will decide who gets to scout those border states, and it may often be neither school.

Just out of curiosity, gill - and this isn't an accusation - how many teams DO you have in Tark?  Three?

Posted by cornfused on 8/12/2011 5:42:00 PM (view original):
Just out of curiosity, gill - and this isn't an accusation - how many teams DO you have in Tark?  Three?

yeah, i had 4 even at one point, but cut back. for quite a while i had 3 (1 per division) but got sick of d3, so i jumped to d1 - hence the current situation :)

I think having two teams in one world is unfair. period. A DI team can scout a ton more states than a DIII school is able to. so, why would you want to scout the same state twice anyways? you can simply login to the other user to view the state you already paid for.  And, I've noticed a lot of the "elite" coaches do in fact have more than one team in the same world.   more than just coincidence?I've even seen many of them have same-state recruits. What is the logical reason to go through all the trouble of having seperate users just so you can have more than one team in the same world. Why not do like I do? why wouldnt you want to pay for them all under one account and have the diversity of being in more than one world?

Posted by dcompguru on 8/12/2011 10:08:00 PM (view original):
I think having two teams in one world is unfair. period. A DI team can scout a ton more states than a DIII school is able to. so, why would you want to scout the same state twice anyways? you can simply login to the other user to view the state you already paid for.  And, I've noticed a lot of the "elite" coaches do in fact have more than one team in the same world.   more than just coincidence?I've even seen many of them have same-state recruits. What is the logical reason to go through all the trouble of having seperate users just so you can have more than one team in the same world. Why not do like I do? why wouldnt you want to pay for them all under one account and have the diversity of being in more than one world?

i think you'll find most of the reasons you are looking for are already clearly laid out. i think if you look into it, you will also find most of the coaches you speak of with more than 1 team in a world have multiple teams pre-dating FSS. so how do you explain that?

its like beating a dead horse at this point, but simply put - yes, " you can simply login to the other user to view the state you already paid for.". but thats cheating and everybody acknowledges it. it very very simply comes down to if you are willing to cheat or not. you choose to do so by not having multiple teams. some of us choose to do it another way. 

Posted by coach_billyg on 8/12/2011 10:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcompguru on 8/12/2011 10:08:00 PM (view original):
I think having two teams in one world is unfair. period. A DI team can scout a ton more states than a DIII school is able to. so, why would you want to scout the same state twice anyways? you can simply login to the other user to view the state you already paid for.  And, I've noticed a lot of the "elite" coaches do in fact have more than one team in the same world.   more than just coincidence?I've even seen many of them have same-state recruits. What is the logical reason to go through all the trouble of having seperate users just so you can have more than one team in the same world. Why not do like I do? why wouldnt you want to pay for them all under one account and have the diversity of being in more than one world?

i think you'll find most of the reasons you are looking for are already clearly laid out. i think if you look into it, you will also find most of the coaches you speak of with more than 1 team in a world have multiple teams pre-dating FSS. so how do you explain that?

its like beating a dead horse at this point, but simply put - yes, " you can simply login to the other user to view the state you already paid for.". but thats cheating and everybody acknowledges it. it very very simply comes down to if you are willing to cheat or not. you choose to do so by not having multiple teams. some of us choose to do it another way. 

CBG, you may want to re-write those last couple of sentences.  I'm sure we all understand what you were trying to say, but the way you've got it written right now sure makes it look like you're saying that you're choosing another way to cheat.  Read it again closely, you'll see what I mean!

I just can't stand people that lie about cheating...you don't view other states that you FSSed on your other usernames...poppycock...I don't care that billyg or anyone does it, but don't try to act like some holier than thou, champion of ethics in HD, because it just makes you even more ridiculous.  If you have mulitple teams in a world and you're not "sharing" FSS info between the usernames, you're just dumb, period.

billyg makes a good point ... a lot of vet coaches with two teams in the same world had it set up that well before FSS even existed. That pretty clearly demonstrates that they weren't simply taking a second team to collude with themselves.

Posted by colonels19 on 8/13/2011 12:09:00 AM (view original):
I just can't stand people that lie about cheating...you don't view other states that you FSSed on your other usernames...poppycock...I don't care that billyg or anyone does it, but don't try to act like some holier than thou, champion of ethics in HD, because it just makes you even more ridiculous.  If you have mulitple teams in a world and you're not "sharing" FSS info between the usernames, you're just dumb, period.

if someone had told me yesterday the stupidest post of the thread had not yet come, i wouldn't have believed them. but if there was one person who could pull it off.... :)

Posted by colonels19 on 8/13/2011 12:09:00 AM (view original):
I just can't stand people that lie about cheating...you don't view other states that you FSSed on your other usernames...poppycock...I don't care that billyg or anyone does it, but don't try to act like some holier than thou, champion of ethics in HD, because it just makes you even more ridiculous.  If you have mulitple teams in a world and you're not "sharing" FSS info between the usernames, you're just dumb, period.

Guess we know where Trevor stands on this issue.

Posted by gillispie on 8/12/2011 2:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 8/12/2011 1:44:00 PM (view original):
There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

this is just an incredibly short sighted statement. really? how many coaches have picked up a second ID to take over a team they love, so they can still achieve their goal of moving up and building a dynasty at a higher level? clearly, there is ABSOLUTELY no merit there, right? what about a coach who doesn't want to have 10 recruiting sessions per year, and would like to condense that to say, 5. there is ABSOLUTELY no merit there, right? what about a coach who doesn't want to play 1 or 2 a day worlds. just totally ridiculous to feel that way right? come on.

A team that you LOVE ... really?

This is a computer generated sheet of numbers.  You can LOVE the next excel spreadsheet it generates just as much as the last one.

I am not saying that everyone cheats, just that after 4 seasons there is no one left that was there when you took over, so getting the same team in another world is just fine.