# Baseline Prestige Topic

Can someone please explain this concept to me? I see it used often, and see there were some changes to it recently, but it's very fuzzy to me what it means exactly.
6/25/2012 8:05 AM
It only applies to D1.

In D1 prestige is based on a few things.  Team results, conference prestige and baseline.

I think of it this way....baseline is a constant which is averaged with the 2 other variables to get your team prestige.  So teams tend towards their baseline....the same team results from UNC will result in better team prestige than the exact same results from Wichita State or Ball State.

Ignoring conference prestige, the math would be something like this:

UNC = (75(team) + 100 baseline) /2 = 87.5
Ball State (75 (team) + 50 baseline)/2 = 62.5

So same result, but UNC is way ahead on prestige.
6/25/2012 8:39 AM
Thanks. That's essentially what I thought. Secondly, does this also essentially cap prestige of low-D1 teams?
6/25/2012 8:52 AM
No - conference prestige was what normally lead to a soft cap of prestige, however that could be overcome with many good schools in the same mid major conference.
6/25/2012 8:56 AM
Back when HD was created, all of the DI schools were assigned a letter grade based on their relative strength. The grade was based on an analysis of real life W-L records and postseason success for the previous 10 year period. This was done to establish a starting point for recruit preferences, job promotion, and conference prestige. It is also one of the factors used in determining a team's current prestige.

The official Baseline is hidden and unknown to WIS users but based on observation of the ratings when new worlds were formed, the following list is accepted as the standard. Seble, the current WIS HD programmer, has indicated that the list is accurate.

D1 Baseline Prestiges:

ACC
Big East
Big 10
SEC
Pac 10
Big 12

A+ Duke
A+ North Carolina
A Maryland
A- Georgia Tech
A- Wake Forest
A- North Carolina State
A- Boston College
B+ Virginia
B Clemson
B Florida State
B Miami (Fla)
B Virginia Tech

A+ Connecticut
A+ Syracuse
A- Georgetown
A- Louisville
A- Cincinnati
B+ Villanova
B+ Pittsburgh
B West Virginia
B Providence
B Seton Hall
B St. John's
B- Rutgers

A+ Michigan State
A+ Illinois
A- Indiana
A- Wisconsin
B+ Ohio State
B+ Purdue
B Iowa
B Michigan
B Minnesota
B Notre Dame
B- Penn State
B- Northwestern

A+ Kentucky
A- Florida
B+ Arkansas
B+ Tennessee
B LSU
B South Carolina
B Vanderbilt
B Georgia
B Alabama
B Auburn
B Mississippi
B Mississippi State

A+ UCLA
A+ Arizona
A- Stanford
B California
B Oregon
B Oregon State
B Washington State
B Washington
B Arizona State
B USC
B- Hawaii
B- Fresno State

A+ Kansas
A- Oklahoma
B Oklahoma State
B Texas
B Missouri
B Iowa State
B Texas Tech
B Texas A&M
B- Kansas State
B- Baylor

A10
B = St. Joseph's
B = Temple
B = Xavier
B = Dayton
B- = UMass
B- = Charlotte
B- = Rhode Island
B- = St. Bonaventure
B- = Richmond
B- = St. Louis
B- = George Washington
B- = La Salle

WCC
B = Gonzaga
C = Pepperdine
C = Portland
C = San Francisco
C = Santa Clara
C = Loyola Marymount
C = San Jose St.
D+= Grambling St.
D+= Lipscomb
D+= Texas, Pan American
D+= Boise St.

Mountain West
B = Utah
B = UNLV
B- = New Mexico
C = BYU
C = Denver
C = Texas Christian
C = Texas Southern
C = Wyoming
C = Air Force
C = N. Texas
C = San Diego St.

CUSA
Memphis = B
The rest = C

Ivy
All teams = D

Horizon
B = Marquette
B- = DePaul
The rest = C

Missouri Valley
All teams = C

MAC
All teams = C

All other schools are D
6/25/2012 9:10 AM
Posted by steuarjd on 6/25/2012 8:52:00 AM (view original):
Thanks. That's essentially what I thought. Secondly, does this also essentially cap prestige of low-D1 teams?
Kind of.

A D baseline team that wins 4 NTs in a row will be an A+, but a Duke that wins 4 NTs in a row will be a higher A+.

6/25/2012 10:24 AM
I still believe the above listed "accepted" baseline is probably off on about 1/4 of the teams.
based on the worlds that started when prestige was visible here's what I came up with for the BigEast.

 Connecticut A+ Syracuse A+ Cincinnati A- Louisville A- Georgetown B Pittsburgh B Providence B Seton Hall B St. John's B Villanova B West Virginia B Rutgers B-
6/25/2012 12:32 PM
I concur with Iguana.  Some of those seem way off.  Arkansas can't possibly be a B+, can they?
6/25/2012 1:06 PM
Where is Pork's list? he put them all in a list before the first season of Phelan had ran.
6/25/2012 1:18 PM
Posted by Iguana1 on 6/25/2012 12:32:00 PM (view original):
I still believe the above listed "accepted" baseline is probably off on about 1/4 of the teams.
based on the worlds that started when prestige was visible here's what I came up with for the BigEast.

 Connecticut A+ Syracuse A+ Cincinnati A- Louisville A- Georgetown B Pittsburgh B Providence B Seton Hall B St. John's B Villanova B West Virginia B Rutgers B-
Iguana - I believe the ones listed are accurate. At least they are the Prestige ratings that we saw day 1 when the mad rush to Knight began (sorry not Phelan).
6/25/2012 1:50 PM
Posted by jslotman on 6/25/2012 1:06:00 PM (view original):
I concur with Iguana.  Some of those seem way off.  Arkansas can't possibly be a B+, can they?
They won a National Championship and had another title game appearance within the 10-year window, so that seems reasonable for the time-frame that was considered.
6/25/2012 2:26 PM (edited)
the best initial grades we had were those listed after season 1 in Phelan and Knight.  I've used those grades and the results that occured that season to come up with my grades.

Georgetown was an A- in both worlds after that first season.  In one world they won the PIT and in the other they went 2 rounds in the NT.
However West Virginia also went to the 2nd round of the NT in Knight season 1 and they also ended up at a A-.  Not likely that two teams, two grades apart in opening prestige, both end up at the same prestige grade after similiar season 1 results.  If anything Georgetown had a better season 1 resume.

Plus Georgetown also has dropped down to C- in multiple worlds.
And when I checked about a year ago that was something I don't believe Louisville and Cincinnati had done.

I also have Arkansas at a starting grade of B, rather than a B+.
Again I compare first season results vs conference mates.
Arkansas ended up season 1 in Phelan with a B+.    A loss in the first round of the NT, 17 wins, 42 rpi
Mississippi ended up season 1 in Phelan with a B+.  They also lost in the first round of the NT, 16 wins, 59 rpi.
Looking at Knight season 1, LSU, South Carolina and Vanderbilt all lost in the first round of the NT and ended with B+ prestige grades.
Hard to see how Arkansas is B+ and the others are B.

6/25/2012 4:03 PM (edited)
So it is better to be at any A10 school over being at Davidson? I thought Davidson had higher baseline but am I to assume it is D under all other schools?
7/10/2012 7:09 PM
from a baseline perspective, yes. However with the recent changes to how baseline is supposed to work who knows...probably still better at the higher baseline though
7/10/2012 11:45 PM
Posted by gvsujulius on 7/10/2012 7:09:00 PM (view original):
So it is better to be at any A10 school over being at Davidson? I thought Davidson had higher baseline but am I to assume it is D under all other schools?
Davidson definitely does not have a higher baseline prestige.  The baselines were formulated before Stephon Curry arrived on the scene.
7/11/2012 9:31 AM
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Baseline Prestige Topic