I'm sure his isn't the first time, but Texas, a destination school for some, opened up post-recruiting (not sure why) and SHOULD have been an open job for all to compete foe. We find out now it's not on the list of open jobs, and has been "reserved" by a coach coming back to the game.

Does anyone else have a big problem with this? Should bcs jobs be opened to everyone, not handed to the first guy to comes back to he game and qualifies? What if someone with a better resume wanted that job?

Opened up "post-recruiting"?

Do you mean after roll over and before recruiting?

I think the way reserving works is that you can only reserve SIMAI teams through the national tournament.  After the NT finishes, the world is locked from the "outside" interface until after the Jobs process is over, then there is a draft, then roll over.  After roll over, if you are qualified, you can reserve any open teams through the outside interface.

I don't see a way that someone can grab a team that had a human coach during the Tournament except to apply for it during the normal jobs process.  They could reserve a team that already made it though a jobs process and stayed SIMAI once the regular season starts ... or am I missing something?

Texas had a human coach that disappeared after recruiting ended (still unknown why).

Either way I think it is vastly unfair for anyone to be able reserve a bcs team without having to compete for he job with that world's current coaches.

If I'm reading and comprehending your initial post correctly, that Texas HAD a coach during the job process portion of the season (thus not allowing any other coach in that world the opportunity to apply for the job due to it already having a coach), that the coach was there DURING recruiting, but disappeared AFTER recruiting, thus resulting in Texas becoming a Sim team, then yes, I think in this one specific scenario the job should have stayed open all season and been available during the NEXT job process period for everyone to apply.  But only if I'm understanding correctly that the coach disappeared DURING the season.

Under normal circumstances, should a coach returning to a world be allowed to reserve a BCS team?  Abso-frickin-lutely.  Why?  Because that team had been available to anyone who qualified during the previous year's job application process and NO ONE TOOK IT.  After that, when the season started and that team was Sim coached, I have no problem whatsoever, none, if a coach decides that he wants to rejoin a world, looks at the list of available teams that he qualifies for, sees that one happens to be a BCS team, and then reserves the team.  His resume was obviously good enough for him to qualify for the job, no one else wanted it during the past application period, so it's his.  Period.  Boo-frickin-hoo if someone cries because he was able to reserve the team.  He was qualified for it, everyone in that world who was qualified for it during the last job application period passed on it (which incidentally would have taken place BEFORE he reserved the team), so where's the problem?  That someone who had a great season DURING the year he reserved the team can now no longer apply for the job?  Waaaah, should have been better a year earlier.  There have been several times where I have missed out on jobs because someone got the school one year before my big breakout season.  You know what?  I should have done better sooner!  He did, so why punish him?

Again, if I'm understanding your initial post correctly, then I think that coach should have had to apply like everyone else.  But that is a very rare and strange scenario that you described.  Under normal circumstances, I have no problem at all with a coach being able to reserve a BCS team, a mid-major, a D2 team, or that world's worst D3 team if they so choose.  They were all available to anyone who qualified, no one took the school, so it becomes fair game for any coach returning to the world that qualifies for that team.  In the Texas situation, he should have to compete against other coaches who also qualify.  But normally, no sympathy from me for anyone who whines. 

The only way I can see for that happening (a team to open up after recruiting who had a human coach during recruiting) would be for the coach to actually make a request with Customer Service to quit the team immediately.  I would consider this a very rare occurrence.  Under normal circumstances, where a team made it through the job process and stayed SIMAI coached, I agree with emy completely ... those teams should be available to be reserved by someone who is qualified to take them.

I would put in a ticket to find out why there was a human coach during recruiting and not a human coach now.  Once it is determined how this scenario happened, one could estimate/weigh the frequency of recurrence and see about building in a way to block a team meeting those conditions from being reserved.  I would think that it would be very hard to block a team with a SIMAI coach from being reserved though without actually reserving it (adding a fake coach) and then removing the coach after the job period starts (because showing the reserved teams in the code likely is just a select statement from a database where SIMAI is the coach during the normal regular season).  But doing that would likely remove all the normal lineup changes and other things that the SIM does for SIMAI coached teams, so it is likely not an option for a team that needs to be SIMAI coached throughout the season.

How sure are you that a human was coaching the team during recruiting?

If it's Iba, then there certainly was a human during recruiting.  You can just check the roster for the "Recruited By" column and see that not only did princep01 recruit 3 players, he also applied a RS to one (which Simmy obviously wouldn't do).  Guessing that's the world he's talking about as it's now run by Simmy.

Well, I agree that is the team ... has anyone submitted a request for explanation from Customer Service?

You should not be able to reserve a team that opens up until after the jobs process is completed if you are using the external page ... and you should have to apply like everyone else if using the unemployed page.

EDIT:  I submitted a ticket, lets see what they say.

Posted by hughesjr on 11/12/2012 3:59:00 AM (view original):
The only way I can see for that happening (a team to open up after recruiting who had a human coach during recruiting) would be for the coach to actually make a request with Customer Service to quit the team immediately.  I would consider this a very rare occurrence.  Under normal circumstances, where a team made it through the job process and stayed SIMAI coached, I agree with emy completely ... those teams should be available to be reserved by someone who is qualified to take them.

I would put in a ticket to find out why there was a human coach during recruiting and not a human coach now.  Once it is determined how this scenario happened, one could estimate/weigh the frequency of recurrence and see about building in a way to block a team meeting those conditions from being reserved.  I would think that it would be very hard to block a team with a SIMAI coach from being reserved though without actually reserving it (adding a fake coach) and then removing the coach after the job period starts (because showing the reserved teams in the code likely is just a select statement from a database where SIMAI is the coach during the normal regular season).  But doing that would likely remove all the normal lineup changes and other things that the SIM does for SIMAI coached teams, so it is likely not an option for a team that needs to be SIMAI coached throughout the season.

How sure are you that a human was coaching the team during recruiting?

Couldn't he have been removed for violating the fair play rules?  maybe he had two teams in the same recruiting area, less than 1000 miles apart?

thats what i was thinking (1000 miles apart). i think we all need to step back a second an realize that this system is built around the assumption that coaches are only leaving schools at the designated time (jobs). the system totally works in that case, unless i am misunderstanding something. so 99.9% of the time, its right. but .1% of the time, something crazy happens, and someone gets moved after the fact - and it doesnt work exactly right.

to me, these .1% type issues are going to exist in just about any piece of software, and unless its like, critical to the running of your business that its fixed, i think the creators of that software should get a lot of leniency if they choose to do nothing about it. you cant make everything 100% right always, and we still have stuff like d1 recruit generation that is always broken and has never been fixed. im not saying you shouldnt send this in - im just saying i wouldnt expect them to fix it, and wouldnt be upset if they didnt. sure, it sucks, but how often does it really happen? bigger fish to fry, in my book. if its a simple change, id hope they would fix it, but if not, id really hope they would spend time elsewhere (which is a silly argument i guess, because the alternative to them doing something about this bug is obviously the status quo, in which they do absolutely nothing).

The above scenario is indeed the case. I don't know that princep had another team, though I do know he'd been frustrated a others possibly colluding for over a year. He'd been at Texas for several years.

Be that as it may, I agree with the consensus that this particular scenario should have demanded an open jobs process.

Billy, I think he solution, at the time, would be to simply reset the coaches list for Texas when jobs had started and told the reserving coach to reapply. No reprogramming needed. But now that is into the process, agreed too much hassle.

It's possible the coach was removed for violating TOS.  It could be for having multiple teams within 100 miles, violating recruiting fair play rules or could have been removed from the site for a major violation(s).  

So taking that into consideration (and a real life senario), if a coach is fired during the season, should the school wait until after the season to hire a coach?  They might.... then again it's rare to have a coach fired during the season.  If a top notch coach who had retired and then decided to come back (ie Rick Majeras) should the school wait to hire him after the season when other coaches might have a chance to show interest? Or should they go ahead and hire a guy they know will do the job.  If you qualify for the position, you've proven yourself worthy.  You may not be the best candidate for the job, but you are a qualified candidate.  So with that in mind, it's fair if they are fortunate enough to get to sign on during the season as they decide to come out of retirement and return to the game.  

You might find that someone else more qualified would get the job if they waited until the coach hiring phase, but is it fair to tell a coach who decided to step away that he's not eligible to reserve a team simply because others might want the job too?  It's just luck.  It sucks if you wanted the job but didn't have a chance to get it this time.  I want UNC, but I may never qualify to get it and be the top candidate over someone else.  That's just the name of the game.  I find nothing against someone being lucky to get a good team.

Posted by doomey on 11/12/2012 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Billy, I think he solution, at the time, would be to simply reset the coaches list for Texas when jobs had started and told the reserving coach to reapply. No reprogramming needed. But now that is into the process, agreed too much hassle.

i think you have a pretty reasonable view here, and i would definitely be all for CS making the change you suggested before the fact. or even if they could spend a couple hours programming a fix, id be all for that, too. i just dont have much confidence either of those things would ever happen.

Posted by tdiddy3 on 11/13/2012 3:49:00 PM (view original):
It's possible the coach was removed for violating TOS.  It could be for having multiple teams within 100 miles, violating recruiting fair play rules or could have been removed from the site for a major violation(s).  

So taking that into consideration (and a real life senario), if a coach is fired during the season, should the school wait until after the season to hire a coach?  They might.... then again it's rare to have a coach fired during the season.  If a top notch coach who had retired and then decided to come back (ie Rick Majeras) should the school wait to hire him after the season when other coaches might have a chance to show interest? Or should they go ahead and hire a guy they know will do the job.  If you qualify for the position, you've proven yourself worthy.  You may not be the best candidate for the job, but you are a qualified candidate.  So with that in mind, it's fair if they are fortunate enough to get to sign on during the season as they decide to come out of retirement and return to the game.  

You might find that someone else more qualified would get the job if they waited until the coach hiring phase, but is it fair to tell a coach who decided to step away that he's not eligible to reserve a team simply because others might want the job too?  It's just luck.  It sucks if you wanted the job but didn't have a chance to get it this time.  I want UNC, but I may never qualify to get it and be the top candidate over someone else.  That's just the name of the game.  I find nothing against someone being lucky to get a good team.

I think what Doomey is upset about is not the fact that the guy reserving the team wasn't qualified.  It's the fact that he was the ONLY person who got a chance to submit an application for the job.  In this particular scenario, no one else even got a chance to apply for the job because the vacancy came open after the application process.  As I said earlier, had the team been open through the application process and been passed over by everyone at that time, then sure, give him the job.  But since it wasn't, everyone who qualified after the current season ended should have had an equal shot at it.

And in your real life scenario, teams wait all the time until after the season to hire a full time coach.  In the meantime, they use interims or assistants to fill the spot temporarily (what Simmy would have been doing this season).  We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, but I hope you can at least see where I'm coming from. 

What Emy said. Gjp is eminently qualified, the situation just required a different approach.