Posted by noleaniml on 8/16/2013 10:29:00 AM (view original):
OK, this is the first I am hearing of the "7 years & no postseason = auto firing" thing. I don't think that's true, is it? Actually- look at mlatsko at Cincinatti- it took him 10 seasons with no postseaon to get fired.
I also have to take a little issue with making the postseason in 7 years is something anyone should be able to do. Take a look at me at Lehigh in Tark http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=11921). Now, I don't want to claim I am awesome at this game or anything, but I've been around the block once or twice. Lehigh was one of the worst programs in D1 when I took over (8 wins total in the 3 years prior to my arrival). Now, I know I screwed the pooch this last year- which was really frustrating, however- I feel like Season 80 was overacheiving, but I still didn't make the postseason. I feel like this past season was my first legitimate chance to make the postseason and either I screwed it up or I got unlucky (or most likely a combination of the two). And now I've had that core group of players graduating. So what you guys are saying is that I totally suck if I don't make the postseason in the next two years? I agree with billyg that context is everything. I would say that by season 8 or 9, if I still haven't made the postseason- I have definitely failed, however- the implication that you can just luck into a postseason appearence in 7 years at one of the really crappy D1 schools seems a little short-sighted to me.
82 |
noleaniml |
15-12 |
6-6 |
9-5 |
0-1 |
7-9 |
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191 |
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noleaniml |
9-18 |
7-6 |
2-11 |
0-1 |
7-9 |
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226 |
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D |
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80 |
noleaniml |
20-7 |
13-1 |
7-5 |
0-1 |
12-4 |
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259 |
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noleaniml |
12-15 |
5-9 |
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0-1 |
7-9 |
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noleaniml |
15-13 |
6-8 |
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1-1 |
8-8 |
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Sim AI |
7-20 |
4-10 |
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0-1 |
2-14 |
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321 |
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76 |
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5-23 |
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75 |
Sim AI |
1-26 |
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Sim AI |
10-17 |
3-11 |
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Sim AI |
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72 |
Sim AI |
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71 |
Sim AI |
10-18 |
5-9 |
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70 |
Sim AI |
11-17 |
6-8 |
4-8 |
1-1 |
7-9 |
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211 |
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69 |
Sim AI |
5-22 |
0-12 |
5-9 |
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A couple of things...
I was the one that said something similar to that (although I don't think luck has anything to do with it). I don't/haven't always stuck around either 7 years or until we made the playoffs at every D1 job I've taken, so I can't prove my case definitively, but I did go over all my resumes from all worlds to see how I stand up to my own claim (which was -
7 seasons straight without at least a PIT bid isn't good enough. No offense to . . . anyone, but give me the shittiest team on the planet and I guarantee we will make the postseason at least once in 7 years. I don't have a problem with this being a bare minimum requirement for D 1 employment...)
Knight, S 28 - Southern Utah. (D- when hired, D- when left) I only spent 1 season here. I recruited 4 players that SIMAI took to the PIT 2 seasons later. (SIMAI had not been in the playoffs the previous 24 seasons, and wouldn't be again for the next 7 when a human took over...)
Knight, S 55-58 - Louisville. (C+/B-)Saw a whole class through. Made the PIT our 2nd yr. Previous human had not been in playoffs for previous 10, school not for previous 15.
Rupp, S 50-62 - Central Florida. (C/B+) Part of girt's CUSA revolution. In S 45 aberwager had the Knights in the title game. His players were all gone when I arrived. We made the NT season 4, won the CT season 5, and overall in my 13 seasons we made 9 NT and 1 PIT.
Rupp, S 63-pres - Michigan State. (B+/B+) Made the PIT in season 4, NT 2nd rd in season 5.
Tark, S 70-74 - Colorado. (C/C+). 2 seasons from gillispie coasting out a season after being forced to switch schools, coming off a SIMAI 7-20. PIT seasons 2, 3, 4.
Tark, S 52-68 - Alabama. (C+/B+). PIT seasons 2, 3, 5, 8, 9, 12, 14; NT every other season except the first, which was no postseason.
Tark, S 47-51 - Elon. (D/B-). 8 seasons from last postseason (PIT 1st rd). NT seasons 3, 4, 5.
Phelan, S 58-60 - S. Carolina St. (D-/D+). Did not make post-season in my 3 years. So far SIMAI hasn't with my recruits either in 2 chances, though they did win their half of the conference 2 seasons ago and improve to a C-.
Phelan, S 50-54 - Rutgers. (D+/C+). No postseason prior 7. 0-27 my first year. NT season 4.
Phelan, S 49 - Florida. (C+/C-). Only 1 season. Don't want to claim too much credit for anything, as my successor is a good coach, but a team with 6 of my recruits and 6 of his went NT 2nd in S 52.
Phelan, S 41-46 - Marquette. (C-/B). No post season prior 7. NT seasons 4, 6, 7, 8.
Wooden S 46-47 - Jackson St. (C+/C). PIT for SIMAI prior season, human coached 2 seasons prior with postseason about 3 out of every 4 seasons. NT 1st season. (Can't see roster makeup as I don't currently have a Wooden team.)
So a couple of them are really too short to count, and I didn't bother to list the 2 new schools I just took over this and last season respectively in Richmond (Tark) and Columbia (Phelan) since I haven't been there very long and we haven't made the postseason yet at either. Now, I think of myself as a slightly above average player, and I haven't had much trouble finding the postseason at least every 7 years. In fact, its never taken me more than 4. That's why I don't think 7 is unreasonable. Maybe I'm a bit better than I give myself credit for, in which case this probably reads as me just being a dick, but really that's not how I see myself, but if I am underrating myself than perhaps my logic would be flawed, but really, for whatever reason, even if that reason is someone just isn't good enough, then I'm ok with them not coaching in D1 if they can't hit this minimum. Hope I didn't offend you, just trying give some facts for my POV.
ETA: To encompass what gillispie mentioned - I'm not saying they have to be fired if they don't make the post-season in 7, I'm saying that I'm good with it being the minimum threshold where its possible...
8/16/2013 2:04 PM (edited)