Weird recruiting quirk after w/drawing offer Topic

dukenilnil
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Weird recruiting issue.  
 
Called 2 recruit on 1st cycle, received backup message and he kept my scholarship offer.  
After signings started, I wasn't sure I wanted to sign him so I withdrew the scholarship offer but was thinking I may recruit him again  later.
 
Went back to call him, and now he is rejecting my phone calls and the coach is telling me he'll never sign.
The history now also says "declined scholarship offer" even though I was the one who w/drew it.
 
I've never had a player go from having you as a backup to not even taking a phone call before.
 
I guess w/drawing a scholarship offer can take a recruit from being a backup to not w/n reach at all.  I always thought w/drawing offers was net neutral (whatever benefit you got from offering it was lost, but no more, when you w/drew).  Live and learn.
3/19/2013 9:20 AM
killbatman
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That is a little strange, and I don't think I've ever had that happen.  My question would be why are you offering a scholarship with the 1 phone call..I'm not aware that it influences whether or not you'll be a backup.
3/19/2013 10:42 AM
dukenilnil
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It has no influence and I normally don't do it.  I was being lazy and using it as a reminder that he as a target I was waiting to fall as I had sent out a ton of calls early on and didn't feel up to my normal record keeping efforts.  The green schollie arrow reminded me to keep a schollie open for him.   I ended up finding someone else I thought I liked better and I've had guys fall/sign in the same cycle so I pulled the offer just to give me more time to look at other options.

FYI:  This was/is on my CNU team not in Wooden.

3/19/2013 11:11 AM
dukenilnil
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Initial response from CS was that w/drawing has a negative effect but can still overcome here.   If that is true, it is news to me that you can overcome a rejected phone call.  I am following up for clarification.
3/19/2013 11:12 AM
killbatman
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I'll be curious to see what they meant by that.  I don't think it's possible to overcome an initially rejected phone call, but maybe it is possible is this scenario where you pulled the scholly and contributed a little to the rejection.  That sounds a lot like informing of RS and causing them to reject the scholly offer.  That can definitely be overcome with more effort.

btw I do the same thing you described sometimes, but I like to send an extra phone call if I want a player to stand out in a long list for some reason.

3/19/2013 12:07 PM
jenningss
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In Tark last recruiting session I also withdrew a scholarship offer while pursuing someone else. The kid continued to consider me into the 2nd day of signings while I battled over the other. I lost the battle and went back to the original kid who I then re-offered a scholarship. That evening when I checked my team he was not considering me. I know they give up after awhile but he must have given up the SAME cycle as I re-offered. It was now that twilight zone where time had run out to recruit but the very last signings hadn't happened. I was upset with myself for but lo and behold - he signed at the very last. A very rare example of someone signing while not considering (though he once had).
3/19/2013 1:30 PM
coach_billyg
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Posted by dukenilnil on 3/19/2013 9:20:00 AM (view original):
Weird recruiting issue.  
 
Called 2 recruit on 1st cycle, received backup message and he kept my scholarship offer.  
After signings started, I wasn't sure I wanted to sign him so I withdrew the scholarship offer but was thinking I may recruit him again  later.
 
Went back to call him, and now he is rejecting my phone calls and the coach is telling me he'll never sign.
The history now also says "declined scholarship offer" even though I was the one who w/drew it.
 
I've never had a player go from having you as a backup to not even taking a phone call before.
 
I guess w/drawing a scholarship offer can take a recruit from being a backup to not w/n reach at all.  I always thought w/drawing offers was net neutral (whatever benefit you got from offering it was lost, but no more, when you w/drew).  Live and learn.
ive heard of this happening before... cant remember much about it, was a long time ago. but im pretty sure you are wrong about the scholarship, withdrawing is a net negative, and i think the thinking was (possibly confirmed by CS), that the withdrawl put you negative enough for the player to never consider you. which still sort of doesnt add up, you'd think you could eval your way out of it, but there might be some hard coded stop gap to stop you from being able to pull *anyone* down with sufficient evals, and maybe that stop gap is catching guys in this situation.

edit: should have read the rest of the thread BEFORE posting, not after, but anyway - i dont think it was ever confirmed or denied if you could eval your way out of it. if recruiting is still going, it would be interesting to know if you could. sounds like CS is saying you can.
3/19/2013 2:19 PM (edited)
dukenilnil
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Posted by coach_billyg on 3/19/2013 2:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dukenilnil on 3/19/2013 9:20:00 AM (view original):
Weird recruiting issue.  
 
Called 2 recruit on 1st cycle, received backup message and he kept my scholarship offer.  
After signings started, I wasn't sure I wanted to sign him so I withdrew the scholarship offer but was thinking I may recruit him again  later.
 
Went back to call him, and now he is rejecting my phone calls and the coach is telling me he'll never sign.
The history now also says "declined scholarship offer" even though I was the one who w/drew it.
 
I've never had a player go from having you as a backup to not even taking a phone call before.
 
I guess w/drawing a scholarship offer can take a recruit from being a backup to not w/n reach at all.  I always thought w/drawing offers was net neutral (whatever benefit you got from offering it was lost, but no more, when you w/drew).  Live and learn.
ive heard of this happening before... cant remember much about it, was a long time ago. but im pretty sure you are wrong about the scholarship, withdrawing is a net negative, and i think the thinking was (possibly confirmed by CS), that the withdrawl put you negative enough for the player to never consider you. which still sort of doesnt add up, you'd think you could eval your way out of it, but there might be some hard coded stop gap to stop you from being able to pull *anyone* down with sufficient evals, and maybe that stop gap is catching guys in this situation.

edit: should have read the rest of the thread BEFORE posting, not after, but anyway - i dont think it was ever confirmed or denied if you could eval your way out of it. if recruiting is still going, it would be interesting to know if you could. sounds like CS is saying you can.
Basically Billyg is right as to be expected.  CS said this type of phone rejection can be eval. overcome but its theexception
3/21/2013 7:07 AM
coachvegas44
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Scouting Trips are the way to go to have any chance at all. Here's what happen to  me once! Withdrew a schly before 1st signing on a kid considering me. The cycle after first signing I had 1 schly left and decided to go after the kid again. He rejected my PC & HV. Next cycle I hit him with 3 ST & the schly. One of the ST messages was positive and he did not decline the schly but was not considering me. Next cycle I did 2 more ST and guaranteed 10 mins. Next cycle considering me. Signed next cycle.
3/21/2013 8:50 AM
commish118
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Just had this happen to me with another username in D3.  I was very tired and searching for recruits.  Found a guy I liked and gave him a call, letter, home visit, scouting, and scholarship.  I continued looking at the list for a second guard.  Somehow I came back to him and didn't realize it was the same guy I just recruited and repeated the process, but when I offer the scholarship, I was actually withdrawing it.  Went back to my list of recruits expecting to see the two offers and didn't see any, and the one recruit with much more than I intended to spend.  I realized what I did. So I withdrew the second set of calls, visits, etc, and offered him again.  I figured it was all in the same cycle, no harm, no foul.  He refused everything except the scouting trip.  Next cycle I repeated everything and he refused if all again except the scouting trip and call, and told me he would never play for me.

Admin said he was mad about the withdrawn scholarship, and I could have still sign him if I was willing to spend enough. I wasn't willing to find out how much it was going to cost me, so I moved on.

3/22/2013 3:48 AM (edited)
Weird recruiting quirk after w/drawing offer Topic
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