Posted by mullycj on 5/23/2014 12:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wildcat98 on 5/23/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):
It would be better if FSS was just free, like IRL, with Rivals, Scout, 247, etc.

Hate that idea.    The whole idea of finding diamonds in the rough would be gone since you can see potentials for every player in the nation.

I was basically referring to making it free as a better option than making people pay to FSS every individual player, as Oldave suggested.

Posted by buddhagamer on 5/23/2014 12:54:00 PM (view original):
Make having paid $$$ for FSS for the state multiply the effort put in by some percentage based on the cost of the state.  That way if you are using FSS from another account, it won't aid as much in a battle with an owner who using it from the same account.

This is actually a very interesting idea--and much better than making FSS free, in my opinion.

1. Thanks, seble for all the time you have recently spent "mulling things over with your users.

2. Last year there was a thread on which multiple users disclosed all their user names to the forum.

3. I feel this is a topic that gets way too much discussion relative to it's importance. If a multiple user cheats report him. End of story.

Free FSS would not automatically prevent you from finding that diamond.  To the contrary.  No one would know exactly where those ratings would end up and we'd still have to determine if a 50/40/20 with AvgHiLo potential is a better fit than a kids with 40/50/20 with HiAvgLo potential.  And there would be randomness anyway since there is a range of high potential (ie high potential might mean a 28 point increase for one and a 32 point increase for another.)

To me the 1000 mile limit doesn't do much.  Diamonds are often found at 500 miles (1/2*1000) or more at the DII and DIII levels since schools don't usually scout as much at 500+ as they do at less than 200 miles.  Coaches with only one team at DII or DIII probably won't initially scout outside 500+ (unless it's a known scare area).  But if with another user ID, you have scouted an area where the majority of schools at your level don't go, then it's an advantage.  But I'm sure no one really uses one ID to benefit another.  I'd also be willing to bet that users with multiple IDs in the same world do not have both at DI so most if not all will have a team at either DIII or DII.

The other thing that makes FSS bad for the game is it's geographic limits.  Are you telling me it's easier to pinpoint potential on a kid in the boonies of AK while it's not in Toronto or PR or a major city in Germany?  Never have liked FSS.  The DII PR teams can't even get info on their local recruits-which would make them the only schools not to be able to scout their own local kids.  Silly.

Looking back there were many who thought that the ability to set parameters on a the search (e.g. all kids with 40+ ATH) would "spoon-feed" lazy coaches.  That didn't happen and we all found merit in trying to determine which of the thousands of combination of ratings would best support our teams.  That would still be the case as I don't think anyone really knows the answer to which combination of similar ratings is really better.  And to take an educated guess as to where those ratings might end up.

To that end, I feel the same thing would happen without the need to cheat or perhaps better said, the temptation to gain an unintended advantage.

Personally I enjoyed HD pre-FSS, partly because of the real or perceived foul play that was unintended.  I remember the days when the CC message boards would say "There are 0 openings in DIII Crum."

How about making FSS free to everyone, but having it be less accurate than it is now, and then altering the scouting trip so that it gives you all of the attributes instead of just three?

Posted by wildcat98 on 5/23/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):
It would be better if FSS was just free, like IRL, with Rivals, Scout, 247, etc.

Rivals doesn't give 100% accurate player ratings and potential ranges like FSS does. IRL you wouldn't get the info FSS gives you unless you hired a scout, a coach, and a psychiatrist to all spend 100 hours evaluating each player. And they would have to be androids.

The coaches with two ID's who are open about would be stupid to cheat, too easy to be caught.  The cheaters are still cheating, most definitely guaranteed.  Your 1000 mile rule accomplished absolutely nothing except ******* off a bunch of your most loyal customers, that's it.

Posted by dcy0827 on 5/23/2014 5:12:00 PM (view original):
The coaches with two ID's who are open about would be stupid to cheat, too easy to be caught.  The cheaters are still cheating, most definitely guaranteed.  Your 1000 mile rule accomplished absolutely nothing except ******* off a bunch of your most loyal customers, that's it.

i think one could argue there are probably some people even with open alts, like we had, who were abusing those. i could entertain that argument at least - but the question is, what about being 1000 miles away does anything to stop them? clearly, you can just as easily FSS states for team B from team A, from anywhere. so i think its even worse... its that they went after the people who mostly were above board, with a fix that actually does nothing to stop the kind of cheating people were so concerned about. the result was basically telling the non-cheaters to stop doing something that has no correlation to cheating. that is what kills me. 

unfortunately, the intelligent minority of those against multiple teams is against it for a number of non FSS reasons, and those get lost in the shuffle. i think there is actually some merit there, but we were never able to get past step 1 in the logical debate here, which is why you still have people calling for the heads of folks with multiple teams, to solve problems that don't exist or which are not addressed by the intended solution. at least if we got down to the real issues, it would make the guys who have to move feel better about it, that at least there would be some legitimacy and rationale behind the whole thing... this is why it upsets me when people try to paint discussions like the PIT .500 thing about those trying to abuse the system vs those for fairness, or the numerous other distortions put out there. it totally skews the argument, just like happened with multiple teams, into a biased bitchfest instead of an actual analysis about the merits.

I like the idea of only one coach per world. I myself wonder at times if there are some coaches who are not following this rule. Truth be told, as much as I love the idea of only one coach per world, probably the most fair solution would be to bring back the rule that you can have two teams in the same world, at any level and any distance. It would also potentially make it more expensive to compete for the rest of us, but WIS is not crazy expensive I guess and we'd all have that option, instead of just the few and the bold.

But... wouldn't it be possible to make two separate sets of potentials for each player? One set would be what the player was meant to be and another would be an "all red" set. The ratings would not change and would look the same to the coach from both his/her accounts. However, let's say WIS programmed it a formula that would affect 25% of the players available for recruiting. So let's say I scout a bunch of states with "Starr2", some of those players that are blue and look great may in fact be 100% red for the "Starr1" account. Upon signing, the player who who looked amazing from Starr2 would be revealed as a much worse recruit. Doing this would also decrease the # of great recruits by ~25%, so it might be good to tweak the current formula to make a few more great recruits.

That would only cover the FSS end of cheating, but it may be enough of a drawback to discourage them entirely. Seble, you have so much more experience in coding than me, you'd know if this were a feasible option or not. It was just an idea that popped in my head so I jotted it down, not sure it's a good one. I'm sure the amazing coaches in this forum will be able to point out why this may or may not be a good idea.

Posted by dcy0827 on 5/23/2014 5:12:00 PM (view original):
The coaches with two ID's who are open about would be stupid to cheat, too easy to be caught.  The cheaters are still cheating, most definitely guaranteed.  Your 1000 mile rule accomplished absolutely nothing except ******* off a bunch of your most loyal customers, that's it.

Preach, Erik!

Jesus Christ ... do we have to hear this again and again and again ... get over it already.  Play by the freaking rules or quit.

Coaches WERE playing by the rules in place at the time.  The rules got switched midstream.  That's what you don't seem to understand genius and THAT'S what's ******* people off. 

Posted by hughesjr on 5/23/2014 10:40:00 PM (view original):
Jesus Christ ... do we have to hear this again and again and again ... get over it already.  Play by the freaking rules or quit.

hughes, there are still coaching on the boards complaining about multiple teams OVER 1000 miles, calling people cheaters who are in compliance with the rules - so it goes both ways. i think its safe to say, if nobody ******* about multiple teams, the people getting ******* at wouldn't say anything. just saying... besides, i don't have multiple teams anymore, haven't in some time.

Again, and Seble I hope you're reading this, how hard would it be for someone to make two ID's, make them radically different names and then use them to cheat for one another?  Easy as hell and everyone here knows that it's happening in a world somewhere.  THOSE are the guys you need to worry about, not the ones who are above board with their ID's, the ones letting everyone else know "Hey, this is me also".  Those are the easy guys to monitor, so those guys would be far less inclined to cheat.  The Free HD giveaway was the worst thing that EVER happened to this game.  Whoever had that abortion of an idea should have been fired on the spot.

I don't need to use one ID to cheat for another simply because (A) I don't need to win THAT bad, and (B) this game isn't THAT damn difficult anyway.  Heh, spread sheets and complex formulas that win absolutely nothing.  The game isn't that hard gentlemen and you DAMN SURE don't need spread sheets and complex formulas to be successful.  Doesn't seem to be working for a certain few anyway, huh?  Guess that concept is a little too complex for some of you. 

Furthermore, what if a father and son wanted to compete against each other in the same world?  Son doesn't have a credit card, so both teams go on the father's card.  According to all you hall monitors, that would be highly illegal.  One of, if not THE, most respected HD coaches ever used to compete in the same world as his teenage son and no one threw a fit about that.  Get off your damn high horses and play the game.  A person having two teams in the same world isn't what's keeping you people from winning......