I just tried to take a player from a Simai DII team with a C+ prestige with my A+ prestige DIII Worcester St team in Crum.  The first WOTS had the player very tight with the DII Simai team.  I wanted to see if it was possible for me to take the player away and during the process a couple of very interesting/peculiar events took place.  To start the player was very close to me and was a pulldown/dropdown.  He was not directly recruitible from the begining                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On the first cycle I sent ten scouting trips and a home visit.  He rejected the home visit.  The second cycle I sent five scouting trips and a home visit.  At this point he accepted the home visit but he was not yet considering my team.  I kept sending home visits in blocks of three untill he started considering me.  I think that was around 2:00 pm on the second day of recruiting.  After accepting 9 home visits he then rejected the next block of three visits that I sent.  I sent three more the next cycle and he accepted them.  Then the cycle after that he once again rejected 3 visits.  And then accepted the next block of three visits. Why would he reject these visits?  I was already on his considering list at this point.  Is this evidence that the sim does put additional recruiting effort into a player?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Okay, here is where the recruiting got really odd.  The 5:00 pm cycle the day before signings I received a way behind scholarship message.  I sent a couple more home visits and didnt get another scholarship message.  So at 8:00 I sent the last home visit I could afford to send.  At 11:00 I received an updated scholarship message.  It was the one that said I like your school, but.....This is generally viewed as slightly behind.  The 2:00 am WOTS had the player definitely leaning towards The Sim team.  At this point All I had left were letters and promises.  During the 8:00 am cycle I upped the minutes to 20 and set a letter or two and did not receive an updated scholarship message.  at 11:00 a.m. i spent my last 20 dollars on a start and 25 minutes. The 2:00 pm WOTS changed to struggling. Once again, no new scholarship message.  So this battle is over right...........                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Without putting in any more effort, I received an updated scholarship message at 5:00 pm.  Now somehow I am solidly ahead, as long as nothing changes you have yourself a player!  And then the 2:00 am WOTS had the player definitely leaning towards my team.  HOw is any of this possible?  I ran out of money at 11:00 on the previous morning!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I signed the player at 11:00 am that morning.  So even though it cost me nearly 8k, it is possible to sign a player from a higher division with the *very tight* WOTS message.  Which was the original experiment.  All the other stuff just has me confused.  What happened?                                 

I would say it's possible the Sim team filled their scholarships and couldn't go after that guy but that'd take some searching.  

wow I have never had anything like that happen, did the sim run out of schollies maybe?

I've seen situations where a I go from slightly ahead on the WOTS vs. a SIM and w/o putting anymore effort into the kid I suddenly become **very tight** or something like that on signing day.  My sense is that the considering credit for humans >> that for SIMs or however their effort is structured such that the longer a kid is considering you and a SIM, the more effort you have into him, and the longer that battle goes on then the better your chance of eventually pulling ahead.

Edit:  Having said this, I've also seen it where a D2 SIM (and I'm D3) isn't very tight with a kid on the first or second WOTS message and I attempt to pull the kid down.  20, 30, 40 evals later he still isn't considering me.  Then I look on signing day at the 1pm WOTS message and he's now **very tight** with the SIM.  And I'm like, WTF is that all about?  He starts off not tight then turns to very tight while I'm trying to pull him down.  So I'm out a crap ton of cash by then and have to scrounge for a replacement kid because of this dynamic.

I think if the sim fills all s scholarships he will no longer be on the players considering list. This player was right up until he signed

jdno, had the same exact thing happen to me in this current recruiting period.  Battled to just get considered by him, was even, slightly behind and then with no more effort on my part the day of signings he shows as very high priority for the sim.  cut my losses, but the WOTS messages absolutely changed.

I'm lost. Maybe you misread the 2am worst msg. Rejecting visits is a red herring; sometimes they just get rejected when you aren't leading. However, I've sometimes wondered whether another higher division team hadn't put in effort that cycle (e.g. a couple scouting trips).

The rest is just screwy. It almost sounds like SIM informed of red shirt. My best guess is that some unidentified human coach at d2 scouted, got considering, then changed their mind and showed the shirt to ditch him. I'm still not sure that would explain it if your facts are all true.

Posted by rogelio on 2/14/2014 11:01:00 PM (view original):
I'm lost. Maybe you misread the 2am worst msg. Rejecting visits is a red herring; sometimes they just get rejected when you aren't leading. However, I've sometimes wondered whether another higher division team hadn't put in effort that cycle (e.g. a couple scouting trips).

The rest is just screwy. It almost sounds like SIM informed of red shirt. My best guess is that some unidentified human coach at d2 scouted, got considering, then changed their mind and showed the shirt to ditch him. I'm still not sure that would explain it if your facts are all true.

Someone may have put effort toward the guy, I have no way of knowing that. However, I am positive no other team ever showed up on his consideration list.

I thought maybe there was just a delay in the effort from morning cycle to afternoon cycle? But I definitely made up a lot of ground after I ran out of money

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/15/2014 2:03:00 AM (view original):
9 home visits? Is that even legal in real recruiting? 

I had a total of 17 home visits accepted, which still was not enough to put me ahead. I had to rely on promises to sign the player

Could you list your total effort?

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/15/2014 8:43:00 AM (view original):
Could you list your total effort?

Sure


Date Description Cost
2/13/2014 guaranteed minutes - (25) $10
2/13/2014 guaranteed starting spot $10
2/13/2014 letters - (2) $30
2/12/2014 guaranteed minutes - (20) $10
2/12/2014 home visit $305
2/12/2014 letter $15
2/12/2014 home visits - (2) $610
2/12/2014 guaranteed minutes - (15) $10
2/12/2014 home visits - (2) $610
2/12/2014 rejected home visits - (2) N/A
2/12/2014 declined guaranteed minutes - (15) $10
2/12/2014 home visits - (3) $915
2/12/2014 declined guaranteed minutes - (15) $10
2/12/2014 rejected home visits - (3) N/A
2/12/2014 phone call $10
2/12/2014 declined guaranteed minutes - (15) $10
2/12/2014 home visits - (3) $915
2/12/2014 declined guaranteed minutes - (15) $10
2/12/2014 home visits - (3) $915
2/11/2014 declined guaranteed minutes - (15) $10
2/11/2014 home visits - (2) $610
2/11/2014 declined guaranteed minutes - (20) $10
2/11/2014 home visit $305
2/11/2014 scouting trips - (5) $775
2/11/2014 call current coach $10
2/11/2014 scholarship offer $100
2/11/2014 rejected home visit N/A
2/11/2014 scouting trips - (10) $1,550
2/10/2014 Added to Watch List N/A
Total $7,775
*Any efforts made but not yet responded to are highlighted.

I also wanted to see where the point the player would accept minutes. Is it once you're considered? Once you've made it close? Only when you're leading? I guess you have to have it fairly close before a player will accept minutes

1.   I think your effort to take a **very tight** recruit is about right.  

17 HV
15 ST (used to pull down)= ~2 HV
Starting spot and 25 minute= ~ 3 HV

If anything, this is less than I expected.

2.  People say recruits only accept minutes when you are leading.   I am not sure if that is true but I do think it needs to be close.

3. I think the theory that "human" considering credit is a higher multiplier than "SIM"  considering credit is plausible.

Posted by mikvitu on 2/14/2014 9:48:00 PM (view original):
I would say it's possible the Sim team filled their scholarships and couldn't go after that guy but that'd take some searching.  

SIMS never over recruit.