I have a dollar on "hedge fund guy".

I think he is a boss at a e-tech company.

ISIS regional manager?

Posted by colonels19 on 8/19/2015 11:19:00 PM (view original):
You must have really high turnover...what kind of business do you "own"?

Turnover is quite low for my employees, as most people value the working conditions and environment.  That's what happens when you treat your people well - they respond in kind. I'm honestly not sure how your conclusion is so far off the mark here that you think there would be high turnover in such an environment.

I never said I own any business.

Posted by cmac4567 on 8/20/2015 12:52:00 AM (view original):
I guess I've been lucky enough to work for companies that didn't mind one using their machine or connection for personal business on our break or lunch. Did they have security software? Yes but it was to protect them from attacks not to keep employees off the computer. Guess I was lucky to have that boss. But by your guidelines and by your own admission earlier to taking personal phone calls during work time wouldn't that also be stealing (or at the very least not being 100% productive for the work your getting paid for). Unless of course you keep your time for said phone calls and stay after to make that time up. Which I'm sure you do.

Do you know for certain that was the purpose of security software - ONLY to keep them from attacks? Honest question. Or do you simply assume that was the case because you were never specifically told otherwise and didn't face any consequences for using the computer in ways which might otherwise be called into question?

No one minds when someone takes a short personal phone call now and again unless it interferes with work, and particularly no one minds if it is an emergency.  Playing games on a company computer and/or connection, however, is NOT okay, and it is certainly NOT ever an emergency.  Such instances don't compare accurately.

Posted by metsmax on 8/20/2015 1:54:00 AM (view original):
when someone says that rules are black and white, that any violation is a serious violation and that every variation is blasphemy, ooops,I mean stealing, one starts to understand his perspective.

I never said all rules were black and white, merely that this issue was.

I also never said any violation is a serious violation. Again, I was addressing a specific issue.

I don't think you understand my perspective at all given you seem to think I've said things I did not say at all.

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/20/2015 10:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 8/20/2015 1:54:00 AM (view original):
when someone says that rules are black and white, that any violation is a serious violation and that every variation is blasphemy, ooops,I mean stealing, one starts to understand his perspective.

I never said all rules were black and white, merely that this issue was.

I also never said any violation is a serious violation. Again, I was addressing a specific issue.

I don't think you understand my perspective at all given you seem to think I've said things I did not say at all.

i just wonder, if so many people see your perspective differently than you, where the problem actually lies...

in response to your last post... seems you are basically agreeing, based on the circumstances of my workplace, theres nothing wrong with using HD at work as long as its on break. i suppose my point all along is, if you don't know if its ok for other people or not, there's really no need to post about how you cant see why people would use HD at work and how if you had all that time you'd want a raise, etc, etc - essentially condescending to the folks who do use it - when its really fairly normal for people to be allowed to use the internet on break.

This thread reminds me of the 1400 page "Atlas Shrugged" swamp i slogged through 25 years ago... describing workers' "capacity" and "production", etc, as if workers are machinery... not to mention the declarative statements that use no (or very few) contractions ("I will", "There is", "I would not", etc)... this is my anthem... yeesh... Do people actually still read Ayn Rand's crap? Her books made sense for about 5 minutes until they were applied to real life.

Posted by npb7768 on 8/21/2015 1:28:00 AM (view original):
This thread reminds me of the 1400 page "Atlas Shrugged" swamp i slogged through 25 years ago... describing workers' "capacity" and "production", etc, as if workers are machinery... not to mention the declarative statements that use no (or very few) contractions ("I will", "There is", "I would not", etc)... this is my anthem... yeesh... Do people actually still read Ayn Rand's crap? Her books made sense for about 5 minutes until they were applied to real life.

Yes, people still take her books very seriously. She is pretty much the godmother to the libertarian movement. Too bad the US over-exaggerated the importance of her works for the purpose of cold war propaganda (she was a ex-soviet woman that railed against communism), without fully understanding her political and economic viewpoints. In my humble opinion.

is it wrong - morally - for WIS to provide the alternative site?

for those who regard it as stealing when one handles personnel matters while at work, is WIS enabling or assisting that theft?  

And are those who patronize WIS supporting an enabler of theft?  follow the money, does the bright line of wrongdoing reach WIS and WIS patrons?

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/19/2015 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by colonels19 on 8/18/2015 11:52:00 PM (view original):
Him suggesting nachopuzzle was/is jealous of him put me over the top.  Nach is really a stand-up dude and we've discussed this situation and his feelings about shawnfucious...I think they're quite valid.  The guy seems like a chooch of a boss, just saying.

I suggested he is jealous of my employees, a reasonable idea given his statement. There was no reason for him to say what he did otherwise.

It is reasonable you are similar in that way, given you last statement.

2:46 PM on a Wed. Are you suppose to be working?  It is in the middle of a work day. Are you stealing or is the policy just for your employees and not you?

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/20/2015 10:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cmac4567 on 8/20/2015 12:52:00 AM (view original):
I guess I've been lucky enough to work for companies that didn't mind one using their machine or connection for personal business on our break or lunch. Did they have security software? Yes but it was to protect them from attacks not to keep employees off the computer. Guess I was lucky to have that boss. But by your guidelines and by your own admission earlier to taking personal phone calls during work time wouldn't that also be stealing (or at the very least not being 100% productive for the work your getting paid for). Unless of course you keep your time for said phone calls and stay after to make that time up. Which I'm sure you do.

Do you know for certain that was the purpose of security software - ONLY to keep them from attacks? Honest question. Or do you simply assume that was the case because you were never specifically told otherwise and didn't face any consequences for using the computer in ways which might otherwise be called into question?

No one minds when someone takes a short personal phone call now and again unless it interferes with work, and particularly no one minds if it is an emergency.  Playing games on a company computer and/or connection, however, is NOT okay, and it is certainly NOT ever an emergency.  Such instances don't compare accurately.

Yes I know 100% for sure the owner (my immediate supervisor) doesn't mind personal use as long as is lunch or breaks. I understand your point. I don't know for sure but my guess is that allot of smaller less "corporate" company's have a more relaxed view on Internet use during breaks and lunch than yours does. I don't think anyone would argue your point but it's the arrogance that has come across on some of your posts. Like you saying its stealing. What exactly are you stealing? My company's Internet connection bill is not billed by data use. It's the same bill every month. Also my computer stays on even if I'm not at my desk so am I stealing electricity because I went to the bathroom? So while you say its stealing what exactly am I stealing?

Also as this afternoon I happen to check https://www.wisjournal.com and it was working for you guys that need it

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/20/2015 11:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/20/2015 10:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 8/20/2015 1:54:00 AM (view original):
when someone says that rules are black and white, that any violation is a serious violation and that every variation is blasphemy, ooops,I mean stealing, one starts to understand his perspective.

I never said all rules were black and white, merely that this issue was.

I also never said any violation is a serious violation. Again, I was addressing a specific issue.

I don't think you understand my perspective at all given you seem to think I've said things I did not say at all.

i just wonder, if so many people see your perspective differently than you, where the problem actually lies...

in response to your last post... seems you are basically agreeing, based on the circumstances of my workplace, theres nothing wrong with using HD at work as long as its on break. i suppose my point all along is, if you don't know if its ok for other people or not, there's really no need to post about how you cant see why people would use HD at work and how if you had all that time you'd want a raise, etc, etc - essentially condescending to the folks who do use it - when its really fairly normal for people to be allowed to use the internet on break.

I know what the problem is, and that shows where it lies.

The problem is some people do not read what someone says but instead of accepting it for what it is, they believe they must add their own meaning to it through assumption, conjecture, guesswork, and so on.

My point is if you don't know for certain your use of equipment/connections belonging to someone else (in this case your workplace) is okay by those in authority, then you should not be doing it.

I truly don't see a need to use work equipment/connections to play HD - even on breaks. If I did have time to play while working, I would indeed ask for a raise.

I stand by both statements, and neither was condescending. Interpreting them as such is adding meaning that isn't there, which as I stated earlier is the problem you spoke of.

Your last statement about what is supposed "normal" is also mere conjecture as well as an attempt to state that he opposite position is "not normal,"  yet offering no reason - much less any evidence - to support that conclusion.

While I'm sure some employers are fine with employees using the internet on break, there are many which are not.  I wouldn't classify either situation as "normal", especially considering the entirely relative nature of the term "normal".

Posted by fd343ny on 8/21/2015 9:52:00 AM (view original):
is it wrong - morally - for WIS to provide the alternative site?

for those who regard it as stealing when one handles personnel matters while at work, is WIS enabling or assisting that theft?  

And are those who patronize WIS supporting an enabler of theft?  follow the money, does the bright line of wrongdoing reach WIS and WIS patrons?

It is WIS job to ensure you have the best access to their site so you will remain a loyal customer.

I'm not sure who said they regard personal matters as stealing. I didn't notice anyone post that particular line of reasoning.

However, if your employer has not given you permission to use their equipment/connection to play games and you do so anyway, then you are stealing. While WIS is providing the access, it is your choice to use it in a manner which is stealing from your employer.

The same reasoning can be applied to other situations. Budweiser is not responsible for every drunk driver who consumed their beer to get drunk. McDonald's is not responsible for obesity and heart attacks because people who ate there are fat or die of cardiac arrest.

Those people are responsible for their own choices - and so the people stealing from their employer are responsible for theirs as well.