seems to me like this topic has been fully ventilated, but I saw this episode yesterday and have to post this excerpt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnFZZNq9Hc8

Posted by zorzii on 8/30/2015 11:44:00 AM (view original):
Shawnfucious is right, he has the biggest thread I have seen, and it's still going on. So, if he was wrong, he would not come back and show you guys the light.

While I certainly believe I'm right, and the facts back that up, none of it has anything to do with the length of the thread.

Posted by Benis on 8/30/2015 3:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/27/2015 9:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 8/26/2015 10:55:00 PM (view original):
A different take - I dont think employees need permission to make personal calls.  I think one does not give up one's basic rights when one becomes an employee.  Serfdom went out some centuries ago.

Unless something is prohibited - and unless that prohibition is reasonable - workers have the right to do it.  They dont need permission to talk to other workers, they dont need permission to make reasonable personal phone calls, etc.  A worker who seeks to organize his fellow workers to object to rules imposed by the boss has a right to do so, subject to some legal limitations.

The workplace is not - despite the assumptions that others appear to make - an environment in which all power belongs to the boss and workers have the right to do only what they have permission to do.  Once upon a time, but no more.

The right to use workplace internet connections is interesting.  What if an employee is required to remain at his or her station on a computer for long periods.  Does the invention of the internet as a means of communication make sending a personal message different from making a phone call on a phone that belongs to the employer?  What if the office maintains a wifi connection - can an employee use his own smartphone through that wifi?  What rights does a worker have without permission as technology changes the work environment?

There was a time when the permission of the boss was the essence of workplace relations.  That time was long ago.

Not being allowed to take personal phone calls while doing your job does not  make one a serf.

You do not have an inherent "right" to make phone calls whenever you wish on a job. Depending upon the job and what you are doing at any given moment, it may not be prudent or even safe to take a phone call (personal or not).

Beyond that, if you agree to work for an employer and one of their rules is a simple concept such as no personal phone calls, that hardly seems like a point of serious contention. It's simply not that big of a deal considering all the other things you might want to fight for in a workplace if you must - and if it is a big deal, you can always quit and take a different job.

If you don't have permission to do something, you don't have permission. It's not just automatically permitted because you want to do it. You're on the job or in the workplace, not at a social gathering or in your own home.

You absolutely DO need permission to talk to other workers at times when doing so takes away from the job. Same thing for personal phone calls. If you have permission, fine, if not, you shouldn't do it.

When a boss is easily approachable and treats workers with continuous respect, the boss usually gets respect in return.  When employees get big raises and more than the average vacation and a host of perks they enjoy, they are very grateful then too.  When all of  that happens and the boss asks for certain things, like 100 percent effort all the time, or that no one use computers for personal things, it's funny...they all do it without complaint.

Maybe at workplaces where bosses aren't respectful and/or the pay is low and/or the perks aren't good or don't exist, that kind of thing happens. When people love their jobs, they work hard and listen to respectful bosses.

The "right" to use workplace internet connections doesn't exist.

Your last statement once again demonstrates a part of what is wrong with America.

We'll add deliberate insubordination to the list of things we've discussed in this thread which show why America is in a state of decline. That list already includes lack of work ethic, stubborn insistence one is correct when the facts show otherwise, and intentional obstinance.

Ugh. Stop saying this is what is wrong with America. You're making yourself sound ignorant and foolish.

I say it because it's true.  I understand it is an unpleasant truth for many, but is no reflection upon me for stating it.

Stating the truth never makes one sound ignorant and foolish, except, perhaps, to those who truly are ignorant and foolish.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 8/30/2015 4:00:00 PM (view original):
Respect My Authoritie!!!!

...though I must admit, I liked it much better when he thought "my outlook" was precisely what was exactly wrong with america

Suffice it to say there are a lot of things wrong with America, and both of you have made statements representing some of those things.

Truth? Based upon what?

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/30/2015 8:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by nachopuzzle on 8/30/2015 4:00:00 PM (view original):
Respect My Authoritie!!!!

...though I must admit, I liked it much better when he thought "my outlook" was precisely what was exactly wrong with america

Suffice it to say there are a lot of things wrong with America, and both of you have made statements representing some of those things.

Sorry to ask, but is that your opinion or is that a fact, because certain words have lost there meanings around here.

Shawn continues to believe that what he spews is fact, apparently totally unaware of what constitutes an opinion.  Shawn, again, just because YOU believe something does not necessarily nor automatically make it factual.

Posted by emy1013 on 8/31/2015 5:22:00 AM (view original):
Shawn continues to believe that what he spews is fact, apparently totally unaware of what constitutes an opinion.  Shawn, again, just because YOU believe something does not necessarily nor automatically make it factual.

+1

Posted by Benis on 8/30/2015 8:38:00 PM (view original):
Truth? Based upon what?

What part of truth don't you understand? I ask in all sincerity.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 8/31/2015 12:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/30/2015 8:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by nachopuzzle on 8/30/2015 4:00:00 PM (view original):
Respect My Authoritie!!!!

...though I must admit, I liked it much better when he thought "my outlook" was precisely what was exactly wrong with america

Suffice it to say there are a lot of things wrong with America, and both of you have made statements representing some of those things.

Sorry to ask, but is that your opinion or is that a fact, because certain words have lost there meanings around here.

Technically it's my opinion that there are a lot of things wrong with America, since someone could say they enjoy things just the way they are in every possible way.

However, I haven't yet met anyone who is completely satisfied with the status quo, but I've met many who agree with my statement. Just an observation.

Posted by emy1013 on 8/31/2015 5:22:00 AM (view original):
Shawn continues to believe that what he spews is fact, apparently totally unaware of what constitutes an opinion.  Shawn, again, just because YOU believe something does not necessarily nor automatically make it factual.

I know very well the difference between opinion and fact.  Do you understand that my opinions are based upon the facts?

I think that would be a difficult admission for most here, since it would likely shatter the notion that anyone might be able to argue effectively against what I've said.

I already believe that's a foregone conclusion anyway, but sheer stubbornness is likely to keep even those without a sound argument from giving up.

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/31/2015 10:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 8/31/2015 5:22:00 AM (view original):
Shawn continues to believe that what he spews is fact, apparently totally unaware of what constitutes an opinion.  Shawn, again, just because YOU believe something does not necessarily nor automatically make it factual.

I know very well the difference between opinion and fact.  Do you understand that my opinions are based upon the facts?

I think that would be a difficult admission for most here, since it would likely shatter the notion that anyone might be able to argue effectively against what I've said.

I already believe that's a foregone conclusion anyway, but sheer stubbornness is likely to keep even those without a sound argument from giving up.

Irony is a hard one to pin down (probably the hardest), but you've come very close. A person whose username is a bastardization of Confucius (which you spelled wrong by the way), who was probably the godfather of anti-factual paradoxical insight (if a thing could actually be said to exist), is railing about not only their absolute grasp of the notion of a fact but its epistemological relation to opinion.

The combination of those things are just the tip of the iceberg which shows that you have no clue what you're talking about.

Posted by shawnfucious on 8/31/2015 10:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/30/2015 8:38:00 PM (view original):
Truth? Based upon what?

What part of truth don't you understand? I ask in all sincerity.

Can you provide some data or examples from personal experience that would make your statement "the truth" rather than opinion?

Basically prove that things like surfing the Internet on your break, having social conversations at work, etc (and all things discussed in this thread that people find to be "normal" behavior) occur ONLY in America but not in Canada, Mexico or any country in Europe.

Posted by metsmax on 8/31/2015 9:45:00 PM (view original):
seems to me like this topic has been fully ventilated, but I saw this episode yesterday and have to post this excerpt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnFZZNq9Hc8

I say "less talk talk and more do do" all the time in my classroom....mostly to get a chuckle though.

"truth?  you can't handle the truth"