They're not breaking any rules as things are set up currently. But, what I'm saying is make it a rule that if teams don't declare for a recruit after 24 hours, or so, they get penalized for poaching, if they then zero in on another team's recruit. That would be more like RL recruiting, and would force power 6 teams to declare their recruiting intentions earlier, thus eliminating most, if not all "poaching."

how is it more like RL recruiting? RL recruiting takes place over a period of months. HD is 4 days. There are so many ways in which it is not like RL that using RL as a benchmark is a folly. 

Regardless, even in real life sometimes **** happens and schools have to scramble. In 2001 Syracuse was on the cusp of signing Julius Hodge. At the wire NC State "poached" him, and the Orange had to scramble. So they reached out and poached future All-American (and the player that blocked the final Kansas FGA in the title game, sealing the championship in '03) Hakim Warrick from Providence...

Now, did the Orange have some contact with Warrick previously? Probably, but not seriously. Hodge was a sure thing. A NYC kid who wanted to play in the BEast. Yet SU lost out, and in turn reached out and ****** Providence. It happens...

In a double-edged sword sort of supporting post, I'd like to link to this blurb of a "story" about John Caliperi using basically this same technique, but IRL. (Also, note the irony of Julius ******* Hodge - the player that last-minute ditched SU for NC State, being the one to call out Caliperi. I guess Hodge wasn't "technically" committed to SU yet, so no harm, no foul, right?)

It's double-edged because while it shows a real-life comparison and therefore helps logically boost my point, its John ******* Caliperi, and he is a supreme ****, so I suppose if you act like him in game its fair to be called a **** here too...not that anyone but me said that - but they all want to. 

Posted by zorzii on 1/16/2016 8:28:00 PM (view original):
I disagree Bistiza. I think the big six concept is great, the mid-major concept is great. The advantage needs to be lessened so that some teams can sneak into a final four sometimes or even get to the national game. But if we are realistic when's the last time a non big six team has won the NCAA tournament?

UNLV 1990
Marquette 1977
UTEP 1966

When was the last time a non-big-six went to the final game?

Butler (2010-2011)
Utah 1998
Houston (1983-1984)
Indiana State (1979) Larry Bird

So the game needs to take that into account.

Keep in mind the following is me just shooting from the hip and being blunt and I mean no offense.

I honestly do NOT care if HD is realistic to which teams or conferences do well, dominate, win games or titles in real life.

In fact, I think HD should be its own entity, in which the teams and conferences which do well and dominate and win games and titles depend upon the coaches and players, not upon some predetermined method based upon what happens in real life.

The game should NOT in any way be based upon how teams do in real life, but upon how coaches and players do IN THE GAME. There is no reason at all for the game to consider what happens outside of the game itself.

Posted by dacj501 on 1/17/2016 10:07:00 AM (view original):
how is it more like RL recruiting? RL recruiting takes place over a period of months. HD is 4 days. There are so many ways in which it is not like RL that using RL as a benchmark is a folly. 

Regardless, even in real life sometimes **** happens and schools have to scramble. In 2001 Syracuse was on the cusp of signing Julius Hodge. At the wire NC State "poached" him, and the Orange had to scramble. So they reached out and poached future All-American (and the player that blocked the final Kansas FGA in the title game, sealing the championship in '03) Hakim Warrick from Providence...

Now, did the Orange have some contact with Warrick previously? Probably, but not seriously. Hodge was a sure thing. A NYC kid who wanted to play in the BEast. Yet SU lost out, and in turn reached out and ****** Providence. It happens...

hell, the more I look at it the more my memory might be ****, as usual. I'm a Syracuse native. To me, it seems like it was pretty clear Hodge was indicating he was coming to SU, but the battle seems like it was hotter than all that I can remember, so maybe that part of my example isnt perfect (if NCSU and SU had been fiercely fighting all along its not really at all like it)  - but the taking Warrick from Providence is, I think. Hell, maybe not. It was a long time ago...

whatever. I guess my point in this particular case is that real life isn't necessarily the benchmark for things in HD as many things that are part of RL hoops don't play well here. 

Posted by duke137 on 1/17/2016 8:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by possumfiend on 1/16/2016 10:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cbriese on 1/16/2016 8:28:00 PM (view original):
"Hey, Johnny, this is Coach Hamilton of Florida State. I realize that you've already told the good folks at UAB that you'll play for their program, but I'd like to offer you a full-ride scholarship to Florida State. You'll get to play all the ACC teams every year, and your family and friends will be able to watch you on ESPN many, many times each season. We really need you when we go up against Duke and North Carolina. I completely understand, however, if you want to honor your commitment to the Blazer staff - after all, they get the make trips to schools like Western Kentucky every season. I am hoping you will consider becoming a Seminole, and maybe one day adding your name to a list of the 30 Florida State players, like Dave Cowens and Sam Cassell, who have made the jump to the NBA."

"Sorry, coach, but I'd really prefer to go to the University of Alabama, Birmingham", said no one ever.

Not disagreeing with you as to the outcome with regards to a RL recruiting battle between UAB and FSU but the difference between RL and HD (and the flaw in the HD recruiting process) is that in RL UAB would probably have back up options they could recruit after Florida State came calling.  In HD the ONLY chance UAB has at landing a guy who could be a "difference maker" is to commit all of their recruiting resources, particularly when another mid major is also recruiting the guy.  The result is that when he is poached both mid-majors are then stuck with taking a walk on SIM because they don't have other options.  That's absurd and is completely unrealistic and disincentivizes teams from ever trying to sign better players.  If there's no realistic "back up" recruiting process available in HD, I don't think it's unreasonable to impose recruiting penalties for teams that make no discernible recruiting effort until late in the process.

The other place where this is completely unrealistic is that in RL Florida State doesn't wait until the day or week before signings to start recruiting.  They'd be so far behind the eight ball at that point that they would never compete in a Big 6 conference because all of the premiere talent would be long gone.  The fact that this game allows  higher prestige teams to effectively take any player they choose after sitting idly by doing nothing until right before signing leaves the UAB's and other lower prestige schools with very little chance to recover and at a big disadvantage.  

"Hey Johnny, this is Coach Haase of UAB.  I'm interested in recruiting you to play Blazer basketball next season but I just realized that the good folks at Florida State haven't started recruiting for next season yet and tomorrow is signing day.  I realize that neither you or I know if FSU is even going to start recruiting but I just don't want to take any chances in case they do. Would you mind sitting idly by until they start recruiting so I can determine if they might want you to play at their school.  I mean, you know how it is, if I try to recruit you and they jump it at the last minute I'll have no chance to recruit anyone else this season."

That's never happened either.

I think you make a great point possumfiend. The real crux of the problem is'nt that FSU took UAB's recruit, it's that FSU took UAB's recruit at 0 hour, when UAB thought they had fought for, and won, the rights to signing this recruit. If FSU had declared their intentions on day 1, of the recruiting process, then UAB most likely would have backed off, and would'nt have spent most of their budget, and I believe could have accepted at that point that they could'nt compete with FSU, and moved on to another recruit without having too much animosity... So some kind of stern penalty for teams coming in at the last second, and "poaching" another team's recruit might be the remedy for this problem. Maybe they lose 20% of their recruiting budget for next season, if they do what FSU is accused of doing. I believe this would force them to declare for prospects earlier, and would eliminate most of the so called "poaching" by power 6 teams.

Exactly if I had known Free shoe u FSU was interested in the recruit I would on never bother with him. It is the fact that both me and UCF were battling for him for three days then out of no where comes big budget to take him away. Funny how many great coaches are weighing in and màking great points about how the process is broken....the poachers have gone and hidden. Come out FSU in crum world defend your actions

Posted by bistiza on 1/17/2016 10:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 1/16/2016 8:28:00 PM (view original):
I disagree Bistiza. I think the big six concept is great, the mid-major concept is great. The advantage needs to be lessened so that some teams can sneak into a final four sometimes or even get to the national game. But if we are realistic when's the last time a non big six team has won the NCAA tournament?

UNLV 1990
Marquette 1977
UTEP 1966

When was the last time a non-big-six went to the final game?

Butler (2010-2011)
Utah 1998
Houston (1983-1984)
Indiana State (1979) Larry Bird

So the game needs to take that into account.

Keep in mind the following is me just shooting from the hip and being blunt and I mean no offense.

I honestly do NOT care if HD is realistic to which teams or conferences do well, dominate, win games or titles in real life.

In fact, I think HD should be its own entity, in which the teams and conferences which do well and dominate and win games and titles depend upon the coaches and players, not upon some predetermined method based upon what happens in real life.

The game should NOT in any way be based upon how teams do in real life, but upon how coaches and players do IN THE GAME. There is no reason at all for the game to consider what happens outside of the game itself.

Nailed it. Couldn't agree more.

Posted by cbriese on 1/16/2016 8:28:00 PM (view original):
"Hey, Johnny, this is Coach Hamilton of Florida State. I realize that you've already told the good folks at UAB that you'll play for their program, but I'd like to offer you a full-ride scholarship to Florida State. You'll get to play all the ACC teams every year, and your family and friends will be able to watch you on ESPN many, many times each season. We really need you when we go up against Duke and North Carolina. I completely understand, however, if you want to honor your commitment to the Blazer staff - after all, they get the make trips to schools like Western Kentucky every season. I am hoping you will consider becoming a Seminole, and maybe one day adding your name to a list of the 30 Florida State players, like Dave Cowens and Sam Cassell, who have made the jump to the NBA."

"Sorry, coach, but I'd really prefer to go to the University of Alabama, Birmingham", said no one ever.

Not really true. Think about some of the great players who have played for lesser known schools, some of whom carried them to incredible levels.

If you are a fan of basketball at all (or have even paid any attention to the history of the NBA or college hoops) then you should immediately recognize these names.

Larry Bird went to Indiana and then left for another home state team ,Indiana State, who he led to the national title game; in the Hall of Fame.

Karl Malone, led home state team Louisiana Tech to two NT appearances, one of which went to the Sweet 16; in the Hall of Fame.

John Stockton, led Gonzaga to the NT at a time when Gonzaga wasn't what they are now; in the Hall of Fame.

David Robinson is called "The Admiral" for a reason - he led Navy to the Elite 8; in the Hall of Fame.

Steve Nash led Santa Clara to 3 NT appearances; quite possible the best point guard in the world for several years.

Oh, and this isn't just a phenomenon limited to past NBA greats...

Stephen Curry, the reigning NBA MVP and arguably the best player in the league, led Davidson to the Elite 8.

So while none played at UAB, clearly a number of great players have played for lesser colleges, with some (such as Bird) clearing deciding to do so despite having better offers.

Posted by willowcards2 on 1/16/2016 11:15:00 PM (view original):
The reason every coach who is saying don't change recruiting are the one's who have the biggest budgets and don't have to fight but wait till 5pm on signing days and spend more money than anyone else to get a recruit

That is why they are so against the change!

The new process will take time into consideration as part of the process to hephep stop poachers. Everyone arguing for kows they hàve a unfair advantage and would be unwilling to go mid major because they know the money difference

Not true, at least in my case.

I have ONE D1 school, a mid-major where I have to battle for second-level recruits and have never made it out of the first round of the NT in more than 20 seasons being there. I'm still trying, but it's tough.

I don't want to see recruiting changed - I just want to see D1 be more like D2 and D3.

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/17/2016 6:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bistiza on 1/16/2016 7:34:00 PM (view original):
Recruiting isn't the problem - D1 baseline prestige and other advantages to big name, big conference schools in D1 is the problem.

The game works GREAT at D2 and D3. The best change would make D1 more like D2 and D3 - no baseline prestige, no power conferences except what human coaches create by having a bunch of good coaches in one conference.

There is NO reason HD has to have the same power schools or power conferences as real life. None.

I have one D1 school that I keep just to see what I can do, but the game is FAR better at D2 and D3.

i never get this argument... if all you want is to make d1 like d2/d3, then why not just play d2/d3? is it the name on the school, is that really that important?

First, yes, I DO play mostly D2 and D3.

However, I want to play as some of the D1 schools and have an EQUAL shot, not be at an intrinsic competitive disadvantage that has nothing to do with the other coaches.

Posted by dacj501 on 1/17/2016 10:14:00 AM (view original):
In a double-edged sword sort of supporting post, I'd like to link to this blurb of a "story" about John Caliperi using basically this same technique, but IRL. (Also, note the irony of Julius ******* Hodge - the player that last-minute ditched SU for NC State, being the one to call out Caliperi. I guess Hodge wasn't "technically" committed to SU yet, so no harm, no foul, right?)

It's double-edged because while it shows a real-life comparison and therefore helps logically boost my point, its John ******* Caliperi, and he is a supreme ****, so I suppose if you act like him in game its fair to be called a **** here too...not that anyone but me said that - but they all want to. 

I don't believe that using John Caliperi as an example of how RL recruiting works, is a good one. What does the term "student athlete" mean to Caliperi? It seems to mean "farm system for the NBA", and is about as far removed from what college athletics should be as one can possibly get. He is totally RUTHLESS, and indiscriminate, when it comes to recruiting practices. Do we really want our game to mirror Caliperi's recruiting philosophies? I don't think so. So in the interest of fair play, sportsmanship, and equality, I think something does need to be done, to curb the practice of "poaching". Some sort of harsh penalty to offenders would seem to me, to be the best solution.

I politely disagree. Not about Calipari, he's deplorable. 

I poach.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/17/2016 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I poach.

Are you proud of that Trentonjoe? I mean put yourself in the other coaches shoes. He's coaching a mid major D-I school, has battled with another mid major team for 3 days. Finally the recruit commits to his school, and then from out of no where, when signing hour is near, comes a power 6 school, and immediately snatches up all the hard work, and feelings of accomplishment that this coach has generated over 3 days of hard work. Is this a fair system, or practice? I've had the shoe on that foot, so I know exactly how it feels, and it's not a very good feeling. I've actually written "hate" mail to coaches who have done this to me in the past, and you know what? They never reply. They are too important, or too cowardly, to even reply back. i mean how can you really sit here, and intelligently defend a cowardly, lazy, ruthless, indiscriminate, practice like"POACHING". It's totally INDEFENSIBLE!!!

I think that may be the post of the year....