Who wins the AFC Championship? Topic

I think Bellichick made the worst call, they had three shot at this, at one point, it's second and 1 and he calls a pass. Then he tries at 3 and 1 to QB sneak... They have a penalty... It's 3 and 6, and they pass... Then, just kick the field goal!!! Anyways, at 2nd and 1, bring your RB and get Inside running... If you miss it, at least they will be aware you can run on the third play and it will open up the passing lanes...

They did a terrible coaching job down the stretch. But you are right, Brady did look human and had trouble against pressure. The offensive coordinator needed to design plays where he could get rid of the ball quicker though.
1/25/2016 7:44 PM
Posted by zorzii on 1/24/2016 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Here is the top 5 of all-time.

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Starr
4. Manning
5. Favre
Do yourself a favor and look up how many titles Otto Graham won as a QB next time you make an all-time list :)
1/25/2016 8:02 PM
Posted by dacamel14 on 1/25/2016 8:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zorzii on 1/24/2016 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Here is the top 5 of all-time.

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Starr
4. Manning
5. Favre
Do yourself a favor and look up how many titles Otto Graham won as a QB next time you make an all-time list :)
never heard of him, just googling him, it looks like he won 3? is that not right? i was expecting something higher after your comment.
1/25/2016 8:33 PM
Honestly, I think I remember Terry Bradshaw because I saw footage of him winning. I saw footage of Dan Fouts, Dan Marino and so on. I got hooked on football when John Elway was there and never stopped watching the game. So, I don't know all the QBS. I have no idea who Otto Graham is but will look it up.

I threw a list for the fun of it, you can disagree but it will be tough not to talk of Brady as one of the best ever if not the best. If Manning wins the next one, he closes the gap for sure. But I don't see Denver being able to pressure Newton as much as they did it against Brady. He is a beast, they want him to remain in the Pocket.
1/25/2016 8:46 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 1/25/2016 8:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dacamel14 on 1/25/2016 8:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zorzii on 1/24/2016 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Here is the top 5 of all-time.

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Starr
4. Manning
5. Favre
Do yourself a favor and look up how many titles Otto Graham won as a QB next time you make an all-time list :)
never heard of him, just googling him, it looks like he won 3? is that not right? i was expecting something higher after your comment.
Graham is regarded by critics as one of the most dominant players of his era, having taken the Browns to league championship games every year between 1946 and 1955, winning seven of them. With Graham at quarterback, the Browns posted a record of 114 wins, 20 losses and four ties. While most of Graham's statistical records have been surpassed in the modern era, he still holds the NFL record for career average yards gained per pass attempt, with 8.98. He also holds the record for the highest career winning percentage for an NFL starting quarterback, at 0.814.
1/25/2016 9:46 PM (edited)
Posted by dacamel14 on 1/25/2016 9:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 1/25/2016 8:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dacamel14 on 1/25/2016 8:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zorzii on 1/24/2016 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Here is the top 5 of all-time.

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Starr
4. Manning
5. Favre
Do yourself a favor and look up how many titles Otto Graham won as a QB next time you make an all-time list :)
never heard of him, just googling him, it looks like he won 3? is that not right? i was expecting something higher after your comment.
Graham is regarded by critics as one of the most dominant players of his era, having taken the Browns to league championship games every year between 1946 and 1955, winning seven of them. With Graham at quarterback, the Browns posted a record of 114 wins, 20 losses and four ties. While most of Graham's statistical records have been surpassed in the modern era, he still holds the NFL record for career average yards gained per pass attempt, with 8.98. He also holds the record for the highest career winning percentage for an NFL starting quarterback, at 0.814.
One problem he played for Cleveland so no one really gives flyinfyck now do we
1/26/2016 8:10 AM
Posted by dacamel14 on 1/25/2016 9:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 1/25/2016 8:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dacamel14 on 1/25/2016 8:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zorzii on 1/24/2016 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Here is the top 5 of all-time.

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Starr
4. Manning
5. Favre
Do yourself a favor and look up how many titles Otto Graham won as a QB next time you make an all-time list :)
never heard of him, just googling him, it looks like he won 3? is that not right? i was expecting something higher after your comment.
Graham is regarded by critics as one of the most dominant players of his era, having taken the Browns to league championship games every year between 1946 and 1955, winning seven of them. With Graham at quarterback, the Browns posted a record of 114 wins, 20 losses and four ties. While most of Graham's statistical records have been surpassed in the modern era, he still holds the NFL record for career average yards gained per pass attempt, with 8.98. He also holds the record for the highest career winning percentage for an NFL starting quarterback, at 0.814.
i read that, too - but is that 7 league championships, like afc/nfc? thats how i understood it. it said somewhere on the same page (that same text is on wikipedia) that he only had 3 nfl championships. were the leagues even combined back then? weren't they split for a while? this is way out of my zone, was hoping for just the straight forward answer, if you knew his history.
1/26/2016 10:37 AM
Posted by gillispie1 on 1/26/2016 10:37:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacamel14 on 1/25/2016 9:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 1/25/2016 8:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dacamel14 on 1/25/2016 8:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zorzii on 1/24/2016 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Here is the top 5 of all-time.

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Starr
4. Manning
5. Favre
Do yourself a favor and look up how many titles Otto Graham won as a QB next time you make an all-time list :)
never heard of him, just googling him, it looks like he won 3? is that not right? i was expecting something higher after your comment.
Graham is regarded by critics as one of the most dominant players of his era, having taken the Browns to league championship games every year between 1946 and 1955, winning seven of them. With Graham at quarterback, the Browns posted a record of 114 wins, 20 losses and four ties. While most of Graham's statistical records have been surpassed in the modern era, he still holds the NFL record for career average yards gained per pass attempt, with 8.98. He also holds the record for the highest career winning percentage for an NFL starting quarterback, at 0.814.
i read that, too - but is that 7 league championships, like afc/nfc? thats how i understood it. it said somewhere on the same page (that same text is on wikipedia) that he only had 3 nfl championships. were the leagues even combined back then? weren't they split for a while? this is way out of my zone, was hoping for just the straight forward answer, if you knew his history.
That is correct. Some of his championships came before merging into the NFL. But he played 10 seasons, was in the championship game all 10, and won 7 of them.
1/26/2016 11:52 AM
I would argue that the founding of the AFL and later merger with the NFL plus the additional teams later added created a water downed talent pool. Certainly the rules of the game have changed dramatically as well since Graham's time and most of those changes have been in favor of the offense.
1/26/2016 12:15 PM
Posted by zorzii on 1/25/2016 7:44:00 PM (view original):
I think Bellichick made the worst call, they had three shot at this, at one point, it's second and 1 and he calls a pass. Then he tries at 3 and 1 to QB sneak... They have a penalty... It's 3 and 6, and they pass... Then, just kick the field goal!!! Anyways, at 2nd and 1, bring your RB and get Inside running... If you miss it, at least they will be aware you can run on the third play and it will open up the passing lanes...

They did a terrible coaching job down the stretch. But you are right, Brady did look human and had trouble against pressure. The offensive coordinator needed to design plays where he could get rid of the ball quicker though.
I don't think the sneak is a bad call for NE in that situation. Historically their offensive line has opened up some gaping holes when they try to sneak on 3rd or 4th and short (of course the talking heads credit Brady for it because he's Brady and he just happened to be the guy going through said gaping holes...).

They probably should have kicked a field goal. That one is on Bellicheat.

Brady ALWAYS "looks human" and ALWAYS has trouble against the pressure. This is nothing new - many people just overlook it, which is one of the major reasons he's so OVER RATED.

The NE coaches have ALWAYS tried to design plays which will work to Brady's advantage because while he is a good game manager type of QB, he is average at best when compared with other NFL QBs on difference making skills. 

He throws an okay short pass, but he doesn't have a rocket arm, and unless he's got great downfield threats (see Moss and Gronkowski) they often limit his long throws. He runs okay when he needs to, but he can't cover ground like the better running QBs, so they don't expect him to scramble often. He moves in the pocket well sometimes (and better as he's gotten more experience), so get gets by but he goes down pretty fast if there is more than one guy anywhere near him. He can't shake off tackles like some QBs (Big Ben comes to mind), and he's not as elusive overall as some otherwise slow-footed QBs.

Basically, he's a slightly above average QB, and only then because he's a decent game manager. He knows his bread and butter is quick release short passes, and the coaches do too, so they put a system and plays in place to let him do that. The same system and game plan (and team talent) allowed Matt Cassel to step in and do the same things when Brady went down in 08.

If that leg injury had somehow ended Brady's career, Matt Cassel would have ridden the coat tails of team talent and great coaching (and some cheating) to playoffs and Super Bowls the same way Brady did, because Brady just isn't that great.
1/26/2016 1:04 PM
was graham in the good side of the nfl or the ****** side? or did it not really work that way? in my extremely limited recollection, one of them was fairly sketchy talent wise compared to the other, which lead to some resistance to the merger. but maybe that is totally wrong.
1/26/2016 1:05 PM
bis, what was that one year when brady had an absolutely god awful set of receivers, and he still was able to put up some pretty impressive stats? i think it was like right before they got moss, maybe in the late 00s or something? i remember NE had a ****** off season and the receivers were all these guys nobody heard of, and still, their passing game was above average in the NFL. i could be off on the details, but i'm curious what your take on that season was. it seems to be a decent counter example to your claim, to me. i'm not a big brady fan but i thought that was a pretty convincing display that he is one of the better QBs in the league. 
1/26/2016 1:10 PM
Posted by zorzii on 1/25/2016 8:46:00 PM (view original):
Honestly, I think I remember Terry Bradshaw because I saw footage of him winning. I saw footage of Dan Fouts, Dan Marino and so on. I got hooked on football when John Elway was there and never stopped watching the game. So, I don't know all the QBS. I have no idea who Otto Graham is but will look it up.

I threw a list for the fun of it, you can disagree but it will be tough not to talk of Brady as one of the best ever if not the best. If Manning wins the next one, he closes the gap for sure. But I don't see Denver being able to pressure Newton as much as they did it against Brady. He is a beast, they want him to remain in the Pocket.
On the contrary, it is EASY to talk about Brady not being included as a great.

A slightly above average game manager type QB who can't handle the slightest hint of pressure but has been carried to a lot of wins and even Super Bowls because of team talent and great coaching is NOT worthy of being considered among any of the all time greats, or even among the greats right now.

There are TEN (10)  current NFL starters who are better than Brady right now based upon recent performances (not just stats but actual difference making skills, of which Brady has very little).

I would say Brady was the 11th best starting QB in 2015. Given 32 NFL teams total, he's right where I've said he should be - slightly better than the average.


The full list of those I believer are better than Brady based recent performance and actual difference making skills (again, Brady has little difference making skills):

Carson Palmer
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers
Russel Wilson
1/26/2016 1:16 PM
what drugs are you on man seriously this is worse than some of the other threads on here lol.  Did brady sleep with your gf or something, because you just have an irrational hatred for him.

You talk about him being carried lol he doing all the work this season.  Peyton has been garbage this season and is 100% being carried by the Broncos insane defense.

Brady on the Broncos would be undefeated.  Manning on the Pats would maybe manage a 10-6 record if Peyton didn't sit out with injury in this scenario.
1/26/2016 1:19 PM
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