Here you go, page 2

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=488367&page=2

"Even at level 1 scouting, you'll have a decent idea of how good the player is. You can certainly recruit without going past level 1 scouting, but I doubt most coaches would be comfortable with that."

You can certainly recruit without going past level 1 scouting....

Posted by Benis on 6/5/2016 3:35:00 PM (view original):
Here you go, page 2

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=488367&page=2

"Even at level 1 scouting, you'll have a decent idea of how good the player is. You can certainly recruit without going past level 1 scouting, but I doubt most coaches would be comfortable with that."

You can certainly recruit without going past level 1 scouting....

Meh, not sure that's so objectionable. He basically implied that it was possible but that it would be bad strategy

Posted by rogelio on 6/5/2016 1:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/5/2016 12:12:00 PM (view original):
I think level one is really only suppose to "show" players. Complaining that the attribute lumping is stupid or whatever is missing the point of the system in my opinion.

This. Level 1 lumps the attributes in a way that might give you the ability to guess which division the recruit might play. That's it and that's the point. The only players for whom this information is known from the beginning are the Top 100 ranked recruits.

The fix for this issue may be to eliminate "Level 1" and just call that the "Player Summary" and have 3 levels of scouting above that, but it's really just a labeling and expectations issue. My guess is that the recruit will respond to recruiting effort identically whether his scouting level is 1 or 4. We'll see. It's hilarious that folks are inventing nefarious stories around this confusion about what will be rolled out: you will need to allocate resources towards discovering that players exist! That's "Level 1".

So, if you run a camp, then FSS (scouting service) the state from which the recruit hails, then that recruit will be at Level 2 or maybe 3. Level 2 has letter grades without potential; 3 has letter grades with potential; 4 is more information than we currently get. It might prove true that the cost structure or the function that assigns recruits to camps needs to be tweaked to get the results the game is looking for, but we just don't know that yet.

Level 1 doesn't tell you **** when you get a B for physicality but that's because of an A durablilty

And regardless again you either have to be dumb or out of money to try risking getting players that are A+ at big 6 because that A+ could be a low 70's and red or a 95 and red, it's too big a gap to cover and be useful, at level 3 an A+ guy everywhere wouldn't even be a good player because it's a terrible grading scale

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/5/2016 1:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 6/5/2016 12:57:00 PM (view original):
Seble said that you will have a decent idea of how good a player is based upon level 1 info. Meaning that you could recruit off this info.

Well, then, he lied. String him up!

But then again, so what? For years, everyone's been saying how they hate the randomness of scouting reports now there is a clear pattern to scouting a player that gets EVERYTHING in 4 trips.

Isn't that a sign he's at least been listening to the customers?

Excellent point here that I hadn't thought of. Especially for International players. I have had times where I have made 15 scouting trips to see if a PG has high or low potential in BH. Now, I can buy FSS and make 2 trips to get that info, or 3 trips to get everything I need.

I have about $6,000 left in my scouting budget now, and I only have 3 openings, but I have pretty much all of the information I think I need to recruit well.

Um, at big 6 schools you have the resources to go to level 4. Are you seriously complaining because it's now harder to differiantiate which guys are 90+ guys? You think it's now to hard for big 6 schools? Come on Ian, at this point your negativity is just ridiculous. You have some points but this one is ridiculous.

Posted by chapelhillne on 6/5/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/5/2016 1:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 6/5/2016 12:57:00 PM (view original):
Seble said that you will have a decent idea of how good a player is based upon level 1 info. Meaning that you could recruit off this info.

Well, then, he lied. String him up!

But then again, so what? For years, everyone's been saying how they hate the randomness of scouting reports now there is a clear pattern to scouting a player that gets EVERYTHING in 4 trips.

Isn't that a sign he's at least been listening to the customers?

Excellent point here that I hadn't thought of. Especially for International players. I have had times where I have made 15 scouting trips to see if a PG has high or low potential in BH. Now, I can buy FSS and make 2 trips to get that info, or 3 trips to get everything I need.

I have about $6,000 left in my scouting budget now, and I only have 3 openings, but I have pretty much all of the information I think I need to recruit well.

I am also pretty sure they got the scouting budget close. I know I made a fm of mistake but I think found 10-20 guys do my d3 team with 3 openings.

D1 scouting is not a problem.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/5/2016 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Um, at big 6 schools you have the resources to go to level 4. Are you seriously complaining because it's now harder to differiantiate which guys are 90+ guys? You think it's now to hard for big 6 schools? Come on Ian, at this point your negativity is just ridiculous. You have some points but this one is ridiculous.

so then level 1-3 are completely useless at Big 6 and the level thing is a joke. I didn't say it was hard for Big 6 schools to get level 4 or to find good players I said anyone who uses info that isn't level 4 is either dumb or out of money, But I guess it doesn't matter it seems no one knows how to read here because I post something and then its read incorrectly yet again.

And regardless again you either have to be dumb or out of money to try risking getting players that are A+ at big 6 because that A+ could be a low 70's and red or a 95 and red, it's too big a gap to cover and be useful, at level 3 an A+ guy everywhere wouldn't even be a good player because it's a terrible grading scale

Never said it was hard, I even bolded and highlighted my exact words. Where did I say it was harder?

and the original post was the least biased post, you guys just don't think there is anything wrong with it so you have to rush in and defend any comment outlining problems and labeling them as negative

You are getting etta like....

Seriously, so your point is that at upper most of tier of the game levels 1-3 of scouting are useless because of the terrible grading scale? seems like there are bigger fish for you to overreact to and then get super defensive.

#fiddlestickstrentonjoe

that was just one of the things, I guess a list wasn't big enough or raising concerns since the beginning of this process not sure if you have noticed that at all but there has been plenty I've been against not just this one issue.

So any sort of response is getting super defensive? I'm just supposed to accept whatever you say... lol

No saying no one knows how to read is over reacting and getting defensive.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/5/2016 7:52:00 PM (view original):
No saying no one knows how to read is over reacting and getting defensive.

well almost every post I make I have to rewrite a minute later and someone takes something I wrote and either misses it or assumes I said something else. I would say thats more offensive than defensive

You're right, every else is wrong, Shawn.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/5/2016 8:35:00 PM (view original):
You're right, every else is wrong, Shawn.

thanks for coming to your senses

Let's try one more time:

• he grading scale is complete garbage - It is intended to obfuscate until you spend some budget. That's the point.
  • ?A grading scale where A+ ranges from 75-100 is terrible and wipes out the usefulness of level 1-3, you have to be stupid or out of money to be using less than level 4 info because its nothing but a huge gamble, because you can get an A+ guy in almost every category and not even be D1 talent You fail to realize that obfuscation is the point! An A+ that is blue or green is almost certainly 90+. That would be known at level 3. At D1, there's plenty of funds to scout players up to level 4. So, you only would need to make those choices at DII or DIII.
• Assistant Coach is drunk fucktard - Everyone got their wish. You scout 4 times (or a combination of camps, FSS, & scout) and you know everything. You should be happy!
  • ?This wasn't a serious response so no point in responding Perfectly serious response. There are multiple methods of "discovering" players. Before the complaint was that multiple scouting trips wouldn't return the categories that mattered. Now you are saying the Asst. Coach trips don't return the results you would like, but they are only one option among several to employ to get results. It's like complaining that a hammer is bad when employed as a wrench. We know.
• Camps are garbage(not factoring in prestige from the start i knew would make them pointless) The point of camps is to discover players. If you started "scouting" to determine precise potentials before the camps were run, you wasted your budget. That's a function of shooting your wad too soon, not the camps being bad.
  • ?I shouldn't be getting D1 players to my D3 team and my D1 teams should not be getting D3 players, whoever is in charge of inviting players to camps is probably a drunk fucktard. I'd say this would be a good idea if players who came were realistic. Why do you believe that players showing up at your camp are not recruitable? Remember, part of your scouting budget is to be employed in discovering players. It's quite possible that a D3 team will be able to sign players that show on D1 searches. We (read: you) don't know yet.
• Level system is wack and we knew when he said the categories they would be bad(dur is useless) Level system? This sentence is completely incoherent. No idea what you are talking about.
  • ?Level 1-4 system for info is good idea but poorly implemented due to the grouping and bad letter scale This has been answered already.
• Budgets seem bad especially at D3 This is possibly a valid point, but it's incredibly easy to fix. You know the best way to win friends and influence decisions is to use phrases like "fucktard" as often as possible.
  • ?you really think seble fixes this... fucktard If it needs to be "fixed" to get the results that seble wants during the beta, yes. As I mentioned before, I suspect you had no idea how the new system will function and, long before you needed to, started wasting your budget and, when you realized your mistake, decided that everyone else was at fault.
• 2 recruiting periods I do not think is feasible it hurts new coaches and punishes good coaches with EE's - Until we see how the signing logic actually works, this is just you guessing, there may be top tier recruits still available. No one knows yet. Coaches that are already in the world can recruit a little during the 2nd cycle, but coaches that are new to the world cannot. If that works properly, then it partially addresses my concern about coaches having to invest in a wasted season to take over a team they want (making rebuilding really unattractive). I agree there's a concern here, but we don't know yet.
  • ?coaches moving jobs hurt too, until we know how this actual works out its negative i dont trust seble Useless, but I do agree that you are blaming seble for your own inability to adjust...to the beta...not even the actual rollout...the beta.
• Preferences are stupid(really we are going to make decisions on 1 year sample of your defense or tempo?) and punishes coaches for moving jobs againWhat we don't know is how these will be weighted against prestige, etc. Currently, in Smith, I won the National Championship at D1...no D1 recruits liked my school...I think this will be an improvement.
  • ?regardless of how they are weighted they are bad ideas, really tempo so I will be out of luck for a good recruit for switching my tempo all the time, for having a strong defense only some seasons and lose out becase one season i relied on my offense. big men with sub 20 per/bh/pas wanting perimeter offenses. lack of loyalty when moving up jobs hrts you. The weight placed on these factors makes all the difference. Isn't it obvious that WIS is attempting to address everyone's concerns that the Big 6 schools get to sign all the players they want? This is an attempt to allow a Butler or VCU or Gonzaga to, on occasion, steal a player in straight battle. As the game is currently played, everyone spends all their time avoiding battles to save their money for rollover or to target just 1 battle. The result: a lot of the most experienced coaches don't want any part of D1, or they want to be in a Big 6 conference and everything else is emptied. Everything depends on the weight given to these. Again, recruiting in the Beta hasn't started yet, so you have no idea.
• Confernce chat being relocated was idiotic Replace "idiotic" with " a mistake" and I'd agree. This resembles GD boards, which is not a good thing, but it actually renders better on a phone than on computer.
  • ?an idiot made a mistake so it was idiotic Classless.
• very low isn't important and very high probably gives to much info away easily This contradicts your first point. I might prefer if the scale was tweaked to give the breaks at 7, 14, 21 & 28+, as that would be a more readable and useful scale, but the question is how much scouting do you need to do to get all the info...the answer now is 4.
  • ?not sure how this contradicts what im saying in point 1 they are unrelated items, im fine having this info level 4, but it would be better to have avg seperated into 2 categories and no low/low-. I agree it is fine if the levels are not stupid What you said was "gives to [sic] much info away [too] easily." That undercuts all of your complaints about grades and how scouting doesn't immediately return the best suited recruits for your school or that a budget allocation game makes you allocate your budget in ways that you'd prefer to avoid...so...you have to make choices.
• no bonus cash punishes super conferences which are half the fun maybe, but this depends upon how prestige & conference prestige factor into recruiting & preferences...which we don't know yet. Also, I think there are a number of folks who don't find super-conferences fun. So, definitely, this was a focus of the update.
  • ?still going to affect closely situated conferences because you have less budget to scout far away. so now we cater to ****** coaches that suck? You're not thinking straight. The perverse thing about the bonus cash and carryover is that it means that coaches realize they need to group together for the purpose of competing. It has the effect of incentivizing coaches to join the same conference. It actually creates a problem in the current game that they are trying to eliminate.
• Can't even purchase multiple FSS states at once So what?
  • ?not a big deal by why change it because now its just another hassle and estimating costs is harder as you can't see what the total cost is You realize that the scouting budget is separate from the recruiting budget, right? FSS really did give away too much information too inexpensively. Perversely, at the highest end of D1, you barely need it. The reason to change the system is to generate more battles and allow some players to slip through the cracks to low D1, etc. Once you get used to it, I doubt it will take more time. It should be less time-sensitive than it is now.
• A lot of the color scheme is bad, purple and black look so close and the gameplan pages the white/grey is an annoyance. It looks way better on phones. If you want the game to grow, they have no choice, but to make the game more functional on phones. You'd get over it in about a week.
  • ?maybe do something that doesn't look bad on computers too? i have perfect vision and couldn't tell the difference between purple and black the whole time I was scouting. Your rage is probably making everything red-shift... Maybe you should have your vision checked? Maybe think about therapy?