Posted by therewas47 on 6/11/2016 11:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/11/2016 11:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by therewas47 on 6/11/2016 11:17:00 AM (view original):
1)the change to prestige happened before he was signed.
2) I don't understand why the ability to sign guys this good at lower levels doesn't bother more people. It seems that the consequences of having efficient 30 ppg guys at lower levels will kill a great deal of competitiveness at d2 and d3. Recruiting seems to work fairly well at d1 (when recruits sign needs tweaking) but at d2 and d3 this is a disaster that will drive new users away.

Because he isn't an efficient 30 ppt player.

Many of these guys will be.

I'd like to see an example.

I would note that the beta world has a low D2 population and that was probably a role in this ranked kid going D3. Also I think som coaches just wanted to see what would happen.

Posted by taniajane on 6/11/2016 3:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by yanks250125 on 6/11/2016 3:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by oldwarrior on 6/10/2016 12:10:00 PM (view original):
a D3 team also landed a 653 point #62 overall recruit.

i got him with no battle whatsoever and C+ prestige

Thanks for the information Yanks. I knew you were not a Sim having played you before and could only assume their was no battle for that #17th ranked PF. It should make things interesting if a pretty bad Div 3 team can get a top 20 position Div 1 player. Seble and others believe it to be a fluke, how they can base that claim of a fluke with not even one complete recruiting season completed is beyond my imagination.

I have been pretty vocal against this change. I am now somewhat intrigued with it. However I cant see me running more than 2 teams because of the time constraints. I also worry that many of the changes will have SEVERE and at this point UNKNOWN consequences (Just as this FLUKE signing was) and those consequences will not be fixed (as the past showed with the ignored requests) or constantly fixed with more UNKNOWN consequences every time they are adjusted.

i think its safe to call this a fluke - unless that 17th rated PF is complete garbage, and is not a legit d1 player - which happens, because rankings are based on starting ratings only, not potential / max ratings. if this guy was anywhere near the 17th best PF in d1, and d1 coaches knew what they were doing, its almost for sure that a d1 school would sign him. in the beginning, flukes will happen, because 1) not everyone in the beta is playing yet or taking it at all seriously, and 2) we are all clueless, just trying to figure out the 101 stuff. once coaches learn to scout effectively, there is almost no chance of a high end d1 player falling to d2/d3, because a d1 coach would see it, and would jump in.

still, we could see highly ranked players falling, because the ranking system is complete garbage. anyone who coaches top half d1 knows just how terribly inconsistent the rankings and star rankings are (again, because its starting ratings only, and even then the weight on the rankings is mediocre). so, given that the ranking means almost nothing, i don't think we should get upset over that. but players who would be appropriate on low end d1 NT teams, should not be falling down into d3. there could be one here or there, diamond in the rough types that folks miss for whatever reason, but that already happens today, with guards who end up with +70 per and the like.

One idea would be to have a player like that always wait it out if the top offer is from a D3 team. If it gets to late in the second signing period, and it's still the same, he decides to go with the only decent offer he has. I still think preferences should be taken into account though. For example, let's say he will start on a ranked D3 team that is close to his home and he wants to stay close. The only other offer he has if from a D- prestige D1 team on the other side of the country, and they want to redshirt him, he might still choose the D3 team.

Posted by therewas47 on 6/11/2016 11:17:00 AM (view original):
1)the change to prestige happened before he was signed.
2) I don't understand why the ability to sign guys this good at lower levels doesn't bother more people. It seems that the consequences of having efficient 30 ppg guys at lower levels will kill a great deal of competitiveness at d2 and d3. Recruiting seems to work fairly well at d1 (when recruits sign needs tweaking) but at d2 and d3 this is a disaster that will drive new users away.

2) - its because many of us just don't believe this is really going to happen with enough frequency to worry about. i do believe it will happen some when the game launches - but after a few seasons, i think it will be very rare. besides, d1 caliber players already exist in d3, and it doesn't cause the catastrophic results you are suggesting.

Posted by taniajane on 6/11/2016 12:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by thewizard17 on 6/11/2016 11:57:00 AM (view original):
I have no issue with a D-3 team getting a ranked recruit, especially if he isn't being pursued by a D-1 or D-2 team

I would claim it is obviously unrealistic, but I dont think realism should be the sole goal in this game. However, I do not think a ranked Div 1 recruit should jump at the first offer, and that from a bad Div 3 team. The recruiting cycle is not over yet, I am assuming that there are coaches still with cash for both scouting (which is still open) and recruiting.

Seble preaches have back ups in mind...well there went one out the window.

i agree, but the real problem here is the recruit ranking system. that is the most unrealistic part, and that should be an easy fix. if rankings were right, it would be a very rare thing to see a top 100 recruit go d3. but when so many top 100 recruits are complete garbage, unfit for d- d1 teams, and sometimes unfit for good d2 teams, we will see it.

edit: i just saw the recruit causing the fuss, and he is terrible. i would never even consider recruiting him on a d- d1 team, i'd take a walkon first. he's probably unfit for high d2, too. so, a mid level d2 player fell to d3.. nothing to see here, except an incredibly poorly designed recruit ranking system (technically, its more that potential was added without the already-poor ranking logic being updated, which was a bad decision, but that is just splitting hairs).

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/11/2016 12:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by therewas47 on 6/11/2016 11:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/11/2016 11:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by therewas47 on 6/11/2016 11:17:00 AM (view original):
1)the change to prestige happened before he was signed.
2) I don't understand why the ability to sign guys this good at lower levels doesn't bother more people. It seems that the consequences of having efficient 30 ppg guys at lower levels will kill a great deal of competitiveness at d2 and d3. Recruiting seems to work fairly well at d1 (when recruits sign needs tweaking) but at d2 and d3 this is a disaster that will drive new users away.

Because he isn't an efficient 30 ppt player.

Many of these guys will be.

I'd like to see an example.

I agree with TJ on this. This guy will be a very good d3 player but doesn't have a ton of potential left and personally I have recruited guys that will be better than this guy that started with lower #'s of course. One of my big complaints in this game is how IQ's are weighted and a player with these starting #'s may help bridge that gap. Team chemistry should matter but too many times I see a crappy sim SR outplay a more talented kid on my team because we all know how bad 1st year players suck and most are only decent by the end of their 2nd year because they have a stupid f rating in basic sets you learn as a midget leaguer like m2m or zone. Also, I think most of the really good recruits will be taken by the upper divisions when things get a little more settled....remember seble accelerated the season probably keeping some coaches from scouting properly. If anything kills d3 it will be the very small budgets we have restricting us to see many recruits. I have signed 2 of 3 guys now and the 2nd guy is a ranked player too. Not a lot of potential left and he will only be decent. FYI Both of the ranked guys I have landed were recruited blindly because what I did see "potential wise" sucked with the exception of 1 guy. With my 3 scholarship budget I could only get about 30 recruits to the potential level that we get from FSS. I was also recruiting a 3rd ranked guy but only recently dropped off because I wanted to test the waters a bit on that 1 decent recruit that could see that finally allowed some real recruiting actions like visits. I signed the other 2 off of AP only. I sent a CV and all the HV's that my budget would allow. 3 full scholarships worth! I'm losing the battle to a d3 sim and have nothing left but AP.

Just an FYI if anyone is interested. The recruit that I'm trailing the sim on is interesting. I didn't do a whole lot on AP with this guy meaning AP seems to be very important and may help eliminate what a lot of people call poaching. Recruit preferences look to be about the same for me and simmy . My d3 budget only allowed me to get the 1 CV and 9 HV's plus a promise of 20 minutes & a start.

I'll post my guys in a minute.

Luciano Greco
SG Italy

ATH 53 low
SPD 58 avg
REB 20 avg
DEF 46 avg
SB 14 low
LP 53 low
PER 45 avg
BH 48 high
PAS 51 low
WE 34
STA 79 low
DUR 62 avg
FT C+ avg

563 overall (I didn't scout him fully) 1 HV. Started on him at 12 and signed at 2. 20 attention points.

Richard Dickinson
SG Hawaii

ATH 35 avg
SPD 68 low
REB 11 very low
DEF 39 avg
SB 1 very low
LP 25 very high
PER 72 very high
BH 68 low
PAS 68 high
WE 20 (I'll boost through starting)
STA 84 low
DUR 44 high
FT C avg

535 overall #84 SG (scouted him fully) zero HV, all I did was 20 attention points and a scholarship.

Just as a note, I would think that once more people figure out the vagaries of the newer recruiting system a lot of these players which slip way too low no longer will.

Posted by a_in_the_b on 6/11/2016 4:14:00 PM (view original):
Just as a note, I would think that once more people figure out the vagaries of the newer recruiting system a lot of these players which slip way too low no longer will.

I am curious why you think that. Currently there are many SIMS in div 1 that will be transferred to this system. Yes, Allegedly Seble has beefed up their recruit logic, but at same time Allegedly changed things such as prestige (which I am not sure how much that effects recruiting now), carry over money, possibly penalties for walk ons, conference tourney monies, and a list maybe longer NO ONE knows since we are only half way thru a scout-recruit BETA.

Posted by a_in_the_b on 6/11/2016 4:14:00 PM (view original):
Just as a note, I would think that once more people figure out the vagaries of the newer recruiting system a lot of these players which slip way too low no longer will.

But the current system would have handled this perfectly. It ensures any bad D1 rated player who slips will understandably choose to go to JUCO before they plunge all the way to D3. It's good logic as is.

With this weirdness being a beta, it should be marked as a routine bug and easy fix. The collective shrugs over this are bizarre to me.

But the current system would have handled this perfectly. It ensures any bad D1 rated player who slips will understandably choose to go to JUCO before they plunge all the way to D3. It's good logic as is.

I am not sure he was SO over rated. I would need to look at every PF in high school to judge. I doubt anyone here could do that. Based on the PREVIOUS system the rankings WERE misleading (but still he would never have accepted even a phone call from a bad div 3 team). Has that changed? I have no clue what this system is doing and have no doubt that the ones that think they do are kidding themselves with overwhelmed glee of simply something new.