The death of hoops dynasty Topic

yanks250125
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Posted by taniajane on 6/12/2016 4:30:00 PM (view original):
I as a div2 coach or when was a mid major 1 coach be happy to sign him with as little effort that Yanks put in...edit: make that THRILLED..and Div 3 laughing *** off at the system
0 home visits, 0 campus visits, no guarantees. only history was a scholly and attention points
6/12/2016 5:36 PM
taniajane
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Posted by yanks250125 on 6/12/2016 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by taniajane on 6/12/2016 4:30:00 PM (view original):
I as a div2 coach or when was a mid major 1 coach be happy to sign him with as little effort that Yanks put in...edit: make that THRILLED..and Div 3 laughing *** off at the system
0 home visits, 0 campus visits, no guarantees. only history was a scholly and attention points
yep........course that may change when EVEN less div 1 coaches and Div 2 coaches
6/12/2016 5:42 PM
taniajane
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Course some say he was a lousy even Div 2 and Div 3 653 freshman
6/12/2016 5:43 PM
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Posted by rednu on 6/12/2016 12:20:00 AM (view original):
I actually think quite the opposite will happen and this will become MORE common if something isn't done. The beta world has 70 percent human ownership in D1, which I think eclipses the highest percentage of humans in any "real" HD world. So there are more thinking minds who are able to look for talent.

Yes, the number of D2 coaches is low, but overall I think the D1 + D2 count of humans is pretty close to what we see now in all worlds (and someone can correct me if that assumption is wrong...). As more people at lower divisions become aware, they will start looking for chances like this (because I'm guessing a large number of folks didn't think to reach THAT high for talent from lower levels...). These aren't the sorts of players that lower D1 programs are going to actively swing at. If they're going to battle, it'll be for the prize recruit, not someone who will be a career bench player. Lower divisions will get their pick of guys who used to find their way onto Sim D1 rosters because there was a floor below which the player wouldn't sign. That will also be amplified by sable's encouragement to "have lots of backup options" -- now D1 schools are being asked to spread their resources thinner in case they lose a recruit that they're in the lead on due to the random nature of signings. D2 and D3 schools are free to roll the dice and load up ,knowing there will be an abundance of players they can "fall back" on and get at minimal expenditure if they swing big and miss. I signed 6 players for barely 10% of my recruiting budget. Most of that expenditure went toward one particular JUCO player who fit a key need area for my team and I was insulating myself from being sniped. One of my signings was for just a scholarship, another for 10 AP and a 'ship. If I can get talent for that cheap, why wouldn't I load up and swing for the fences for a program-transforming player?
Spot on. Largely though I think it goes ignored. We pretty much have two sides. Unreasonable positivity and unreasonable negativity. The unreasonably positive categorize any legitimate criticism as part of the group of unreasonably negative (who oppose all change) and denounce the criticism with weak arguments that other unreasonably positive come through and +1 into the ground. The only way to get a criticism to be recognized by that group is to have it effect their teams. So pretty much in this beta we only correct things that are right in front of the coaches face but ignore issues that will exist 6 months to a year from now.
6/12/2016 5:46 PM
taniajane
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Posted by therewas47 on 6/12/2016 5:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rednu on 6/12/2016 12:20:00 AM (view original):
I actually think quite the opposite will happen and this will become MORE common if something isn't done. The beta world has 70 percent human ownership in D1, which I think eclipses the highest percentage of humans in any "real" HD world. So there are more thinking minds who are able to look for talent.

Yes, the number of D2 coaches is low, but overall I think the D1 + D2 count of humans is pretty close to what we see now in all worlds (and someone can correct me if that assumption is wrong...). As more people at lower divisions become aware, they will start looking for chances like this (because I'm guessing a large number of folks didn't think to reach THAT high for talent from lower levels...). These aren't the sorts of players that lower D1 programs are going to actively swing at. If they're going to battle, it'll be for the prize recruit, not someone who will be a career bench player. Lower divisions will get their pick of guys who used to find their way onto Sim D1 rosters because there was a floor below which the player wouldn't sign. That will also be amplified by sable's encouragement to "have lots of backup options" -- now D1 schools are being asked to spread their resources thinner in case they lose a recruit that they're in the lead on due to the random nature of signings. D2 and D3 schools are free to roll the dice and load up ,knowing there will be an abundance of players they can "fall back" on and get at minimal expenditure if they swing big and miss. I signed 6 players for barely 10% of my recruiting budget. Most of that expenditure went toward one particular JUCO player who fit a key need area for my team and I was insulating myself from being sniped. One of my signings was for just a scholarship, another for 10 AP and a 'ship. If I can get talent for that cheap, why wouldn't I load up and swing for the fences for a program-transforming player?
Spot on. Largely though I think it goes ignored. We pretty much have two sides. Unreasonable positivity and unreasonable negativity. The unreasonably positive categorize any legitimate criticism as part of the group of unreasonably negative (who oppose all change) and denounce the criticism with weak arguments that other unreasonably positive come through and +1 into the ground. The only way to get a criticism to be recognized by that group is to have it effect their teams. So pretty much in this beta we only correct things that are right in front of the coaches face but ignore issues that will exist 6 months to a year from now.
I AGREE seems to be any complaint unless issued without a an accomplishment is NEGATIVE-----...odd for years when same complained an had no response..now they believe there will be some much later after this edition is sent to customers
6/12/2016 6:02 PM (edited)
emy1013
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Posted by kcsundevil on 6/12/2016 2:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/11/2016 11:02:00 PM (view original):
Any player not recruited by anyone will hopefully go juco. Also, wis creates juco players.
"Well, gee whiz, I'm the #17 rated PF in the country, and I was hoping to go to a D1 school, but I wasn't recruited. I could play JUCO and have a chance at catching on somewhere that makes logical sense given my abilities next season, like all the similarly situated kids before me did.

"But you know what, TinyTown College in Bumblefart Iowa is offering me a chance to forever give up on my dreams of playing at a higher level, and no human coach is preventing it, so I guess I'll do that."

This is the narrative WIS apparently wants us to embrace. I think this is stupid, and it was programmed out of the original game for a reason. But I guess we're going to be embracing it now.

That said, I realize nobody else sees this my way, and I know that means I'm the crazy one, so I'm gonna drop it.
More than just you see it the same way KC. How everyone doesn't see this as a major problem is beyond me?
6/12/2016 6:02 PM
taniajane
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I wonder if in answer Seble beefs up even more the SIMS where they have the more than normal Super teams
6/12/2016 6:07 PM
emy1013
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Posted by the0nlyis on 6/11/2016 5:35:00 PM (view original):
ah yes I forgot 1 season with no seniors in your first season there discredits anything I do. Want to cherry pick some more stats about my coaching ability because we should totally make a series where we look at coaches and find the most outrageous stat to find about them that makes em look bad
86 the0nlyis 9-0 0-0 9-0 0-0 0-0 4 5 27 -
85 the0nlyis 22-9 11-3 8-4 3-2 12-4 62 116 A- Conf Champion
NT At-large Bid
NT (2nd Round)
84 the0nlyis 27-5 8-0 14-4 5-1 16-0 15 11 31 A+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Sweet 16)
83 the0nlyis 24-6 8-1 14-3 2-2 14-2 19 34 A Conf Champion
NT At-large Bid
NT (2nd Round)
82 the0nlyis 28-5 8-0 14-4 6-1 15-1 6 6 7 A+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Elite 8)
81 the0nlyis 25-5 8-1 14-3 3-1 15-1 20 16 59 B+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (1st Round)

if anyone is interested, I don't even consider myself a good D2 coach and I had more success in a handful of seasons than you have had ever...
Comparing resumes on a simulated basketball games is kind of, well, childish, don't ya think?

The reason everyone "runs away" or whatever phrase you used is because there is no point in arguing with you. You seem to think that success at this game equals how important, pertinent, worthy, or how much validity someone's comments have.

You talk down to coaches who have played the game less time than you, like you're some kind of long time veteran. Guess what New Jack, you aren't (irony most definitely intended).

You can't seem to make a post longer than two sentences without either insulting someone or using some kind of expletive (and believe me, as someone who spent 4 years in the Army and then worked another 18 in a Federal prison, foul language doesn't bother me but everyone doesn't have the same tolerance that I do. Clean up your language).

You have one of the most closed minds I have ever seen on this message board. It's your way or no way and everyone who doesn't agree with you is (in your opinion) either stupid or some kind of ********* (your choice of derogatory comments). Do you really think insulting someone or cursing at them is going to bring them over to your side? Calm down and grow up.

If you don't like the changes, then do what other people are considering doing and just leave? That's probably what I'll do but I'm going to at least try the new version first. Then, if it sucks, I'll just leave. And guess what? NO ONE will miss me when I'm gone, just like no one will miss YOU when you're gone. You're just not that important. Neither am I. But you certainly bring to mind the old saying: "I'd like to buy you for what you're worth and then sell you for what you THINK you're worth." I could retire on the spot. If the changes being made upset you THAT bad, then why are you still here? Take your ball and go home but don't expect anyone to shed any tears. You, I, and other other person playing this game are nothing but anonymous names on a screen and in the big picture mean nothing to anyone here. Sorry to bust your bubble, rain on your parade, or **** in your Cheerios but that's just reality young grasshopper.
6/12/2016 6:21 PM
the0nlyis
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no I just wasn't going to have tania post blantantly cherry picked stats and then have cubcub and coachdud +1 that ****

I do think success makes your posts more valid as it shows you know the game better and can have an idea of what changes will do to that. The talking down just started recently after the meltdown as well as the insulting and explicit language. who cares

Again no I actually have not said my way or the high way, I've conceded many times and not just about the update but since I've been here. I think that is the biggest misconception people have because of the ranting nature of all my posts because unlike other people I am fine debating topics and conceding when I realize my idea is worse or just **** or something isn't as bad as I think it is, but no I just have people ignore that part of the my posts

However I do think there are a bunch of stupid coaches who haven't played a long time or done anything good whose opinion I do not respect for both of those reasons so I voice it and call them stupid because thats what you do on the internet. I've given up on trying to convert people to my side of thinking I'm just going out guns ablazing. if it wasn't obvious I certainly don't care what people think about this account

I'm still playing out my remaining seasons no point wasting them I like a lot of aspects of the current game so no need to just leave now, I have stated I'll leave multiple times.
6/12/2016 8:27 PM (edited)
poncho0091
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Posted by emy1013 on 6/12/2016 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kcsundevil on 6/12/2016 2:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/11/2016 11:02:00 PM (view original):
Any player not recruited by anyone will hopefully go juco. Also, wis creates juco players.
"Well, gee whiz, I'm the #17 rated PF in the country, and I was hoping to go to a D1 school, but I wasn't recruited. I could play JUCO and have a chance at catching on somewhere that makes logical sense given my abilities next season, like all the similarly situated kids before me did.

"But you know what, TinyTown College in Bumblefart Iowa is offering me a chance to forever give up on my dreams of playing at a higher level, and no human coach is preventing it, so I guess I'll do that."

This is the narrative WIS apparently wants us to embrace. I think this is stupid, and it was programmed out of the original game for a reason. But I guess we're going to be embracing it now.

That said, I realize nobody else sees this my way, and I know that means I'm the crazy one, so I'm gonna drop it.
More than just you see it the same way KC. How everyone doesn't see this as a major problem is beyond me?
I also agree. I think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture (which someone else pointed out), sure this guy is not truly a DI guy and he is just a great get as a DIII guy. People are missing the population issue. WIS worlds are not as populated as the beta, which means a whole lot more of these guys are going to fall through the cracks and possibly even better guys than this. In addition to the lower world populations, I'd be willing to bet we lose at least 1/3 of user coached teams within the first 6 months making these steals even more likely.

I thought one of the purposes of this recruiting revamp was to attract new players and make them feel like they have a shot against well established coaches as well as forcing coaches to move out of DIII and DII. Instead, these guys who are new to the game are are going to be welcomed to DIII by the new DIII overlords and will quit thinking they really have no shot.

I thought another reasoning for this update was to make the game more realistic. There is nothing realistic about a ranked player signing at DIII unless he murdered someone and escaped penalty. Yes that's a fail on the ranking, but it's still not real.

A lot of people are excited, because it's new. New does not mean better. While the need to change is important to prevent things getting stale, when you have a great product, you improve it, not scrap it.
6/12/2016 11:19 PM
taggl
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Posted by poncho0091 on 6/12/2016 11:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 6/12/2016 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kcsundevil on 6/12/2016 2:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/11/2016 11:02:00 PM (view original):
Any player not recruited by anyone will hopefully go juco. Also, wis creates juco players.
"Well, gee whiz, I'm the #17 rated PF in the country, and I was hoping to go to a D1 school, but I wasn't recruited. I could play JUCO and have a chance at catching on somewhere that makes logical sense given my abilities next season, like all the similarly situated kids before me did.

"But you know what, TinyTown College in Bumblefart Iowa is offering me a chance to forever give up on my dreams of playing at a higher level, and no human coach is preventing it, so I guess I'll do that."

This is the narrative WIS apparently wants us to embrace. I think this is stupid, and it was programmed out of the original game for a reason. But I guess we're going to be embracing it now.

That said, I realize nobody else sees this my way, and I know that means I'm the crazy one, so I'm gonna drop it.
More than just you see it the same way KC. How everyone doesn't see this as a major problem is beyond me?
I also agree. I think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture (which someone else pointed out), sure this guy is not truly a DI guy and he is just a great get as a DIII guy. People are missing the population issue. WIS worlds are not as populated as the beta, which means a whole lot more of these guys are going to fall through the cracks and possibly even better guys than this. In addition to the lower world populations, I'd be willing to bet we lose at least 1/3 of user coached teams within the first 6 months making these steals even more likely.

I thought one of the purposes of this recruiting revamp was to attract new players and make them feel like they have a shot against well established coaches as well as forcing coaches to move out of DIII and DII. Instead, these guys who are new to the game are are going to be welcomed to DIII by the new DIII overlords and will quit thinking they really have no shot.

I thought another reasoning for this update was to make the game more realistic. There is nothing realistic about a ranked player signing at DIII unless he murdered someone and escaped penalty. Yes that's a fail on the ranking, but it's still not real.

A lot of people are excited, because it's new. New does not mean better. While the need to change is important to prevent things getting stale, when you have a great product, you improve it, not scrap it.

Again I was told beta #'s were about par. Losing 1/3 would have to lead to this happening more but I would add that if each world loses about a 1/3 of it's population HD will have much bigger concerns than this.

As a paying customer I sure hope not and didn't know forcing us out of these levels was part of the deal. These levels are the ones I enjoy playing and the ones in which I've created my friendships here. If I'm told I have to move up I'll probably move out instead.

As I said in beta I agree with this and have no problem if seble decides to make d1 guys have a floor. My only thing is that if he does he also needs to change how camps are set up. My d3 budget sucks as it is and so having a hosted camp half full of these d1 guys if not recruitable only absorbs my budget further...nothing realistic about a bunch of the nations supposed top players visiting my camp either.

Agree and absolutely hope this doesn't happen. I want things to be as realistic as possible but it is a computer game and somewhere the line has to be drawn between realistic & fun...Hopefully we get there.
6/13/2016 12:19 AM (edited)
poncho0091
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Posted by taggl on 6/13/2016 12:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by poncho0091 on 6/12/2016 11:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 6/12/2016 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kcsundevil on 6/12/2016 2:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/11/2016 11:02:00 PM (view original):
Any player not recruited by anyone will hopefully go juco. Also, wis creates juco players.
"Well, gee whiz, I'm the #17 rated PF in the country, and I was hoping to go to a D1 school, but I wasn't recruited. I could play JUCO and have a chance at catching on somewhere that makes logical sense given my abilities next season, like all the similarly situated kids before me did.

"But you know what, TinyTown College in Bumblefart Iowa is offering me a chance to forever give up on my dreams of playing at a higher level, and no human coach is preventing it, so I guess I'll do that."

This is the narrative WIS apparently wants us to embrace. I think this is stupid, and it was programmed out of the original game for a reason. But I guess we're going to be embracing it now.

That said, I realize nobody else sees this my way, and I know that means I'm the crazy one, so I'm gonna drop it.
More than just you see it the same way KC. How everyone doesn't see this as a major problem is beyond me?
I also agree. I think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture (which someone else pointed out), sure this guy is not truly a DI guy and he is just a great get as a DIII guy. People are missing the population issue. WIS worlds are not as populated as the beta, which means a whole lot more of these guys are going to fall through the cracks and possibly even better guys than this. In addition to the lower world populations, I'd be willing to bet we lose at least 1/3 of user coached teams within the first 6 months making these steals even more likely.

I thought one of the purposes of this recruiting revamp was to attract new players and make them feel like they have a shot against well established coaches as well as forcing coaches to move out of DIII and DII. Instead, these guys who are new to the game are are going to be welcomed to DIII by the new DIII overlords and will quit thinking they really have no shot.

I thought another reasoning for this update was to make the game more realistic. There is nothing realistic about a ranked player signing at DIII unless he murdered someone and escaped penalty. Yes that's a fail on the ranking, but it's still not real.

A lot of people are excited, because it's new. New does not mean better. While the need to change is important to prevent things getting stale, when you have a great product, you improve it, not scrap it.

Again I was told beta #'s were about par. Losing 1/3 would have to lead to this happening more but I would add that if each world loses about a 1/3 of it's population HD will have much bigger concerns than this.

As a paying customer I sure hope not and didn't know forcing us out of these levels was part of the deal. These levels are the ones I enjoy playing and the ones in which I've created my friendships here. If I'm told I have to move up I'll probably move out instead.

As I said in beta I agree with this and have no problem if seble decides to make d1 guys have a floor. My only thing is that if he does he also needs to change how camps are set up. My d3 budget sucks as it is and so having a hosted camp half full of these d1 guys if not recruitable only absorbs my budget further...nothing realistic about a bunch of the nations supposed top players visiting my camp either.

Agree and absolutely hope this doesn't happen. I want things to be as realistic as possible but it is a computer game and somewhere the line has to be drawn between realistic & fun...Hopefully we get there.
I used the word force a bit liberally there and it was a bit extreme, but maybe I should have used encourage moreso than force. It was something mentioned in the comments in one of the Beta threads. Doubt I'd find it at this point, maybe someone else could back me on that statement. As far as the large reduction, it's a personal rough estimate over what I imagine is a 6 month or so period of time not based on any tangible numbers, so take that for what it's worth. I'm just throwing a rough number out there based on a little of what I've been seeing from users and what I remember from when potential rolled out. My personal opinion is potential was not nearly as significant as this change. Potential adjusted people's expectations and changed what guys we were willing to recruit. The hardest part about potential was understanding H-H versus H-L and dealing with player development limitations. The backlash, due to poor testing mostly, was pretty significant and world's saw a large drop over the next few months. This is changing everything we know about recruiting. Long time vets are saying, I don't have a clue. That's a pretty big deal.

-Drops in general. There's a lot of people who are not happy with this change just like it has it's supporters, there are those opposed to it. Not all of them will leave, but enough will.
-The Layoff - I think Seble and others are really underestimating how many people are going to leave the game during this period. That's a long time, especially for guys in 2 games per day worlds.
-Shiny new toy- There are lots of guys who think this is interesting. A lot of that is because it's new. Once the shiny toy effect is gone, some will leave.
-Frustration - how many are going to leave simply because they can't adjust or don't like the new system
-Multiple teams - This one is significant imo. Lots of guys, support and opposition, both say they will drop some teams until they adjust simply because they cannot manage the time constraints of the new system and the learning involved. What percentage of HD worlds are filled with users who have more than one team? 50% of each world? Just imagine if even half those coaches drop just 1 team. Now imagine these coaches who have 4-5 teams saying they will drop to 2 teams for now. What happens if they never get new teams again?
6/13/2016 2:31 AM
cjbjostad
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I think that we all have the same concerns regarding the new game and its possible effects on overall game population and our own ability to adapt. Many of you think that the game needs an overhaul, but are concerned with the issues within this version of the beta. I think those of you saying that you're going to leave the game need to understand that the arguments brought about in the forums are the purpose of the beta. They rolled this thing out and want our opinions on the change so that they can address our problems and make a final release that appeals to the masses.

With that being said, here are my issues/concerns with the beta:
  1. Pulling down is too easy - several ranked players were pulled down to my DIII conference. Maybe SIM recruiting should be better.
  2. Pages load much slower than expected.
  3. I just don't like the recruiting overview page - it was not intuitive finding the recruits that I had just discovered. I think that I went to the recruit pool first and just searched all of my players to find the guys that my assistant had just been sent out to find.
6/13/2016 9:04 AM
CoachSpud
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It is interesting to me how some of the nay-sayers claim to be so realistic in their complaints -- and then discuss a poor "D1" player going D3 without ever mentioning the fact that the season was accelerated through most of it in one day, severely limiting scouting opportunities of D1 and D2 coaches who might have taken the kid -- and make up things like being forced to go up a level. C'mon, let's all be real so the conversation is as constructive as possible. The beta has strong points and weak points and they all deserve a hearing.
6/13/2016 10:17 AM
the0nlyis
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and you are ignoring the fact population levels will be lower with coaches leaving and cutting teams so less D1 and D2 human teams to go after these "poor players", and right now there's already great players that last late into recruiting but currently are just not obtainable in the current system to D3 because they are rejected. In the current system there is generally ~5 players I get that reject me and then go unsigned or not picked up until the last day of recruiting, if I'm able to get those players easily now my teams just get better and better. So we are working towards some D3 "super teams" allowing them to go after anyone regardless of rank and making it easy for them. And this is because seble thinks pd/dropdowns are unrealistic(i agree on pd being unrealistic, but think dropdowns are very realistic and easy to mirror) or the coaches like tarv who like this idea and just want less parity at D3 to get their already super teams to megateam status
6/13/2016 10:27 AM (edited)
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