It's not EASY. It doesn't work the way I think it should. MOMMY, I mean NORBERT, change it for me.

Posted by harriswb3 on 8/19/2012 2:05:00 PM (view original):
More food for thought on this topic.  I've said once before, quite a long time ago, that I think the recruiting capability of SIMs is set in the computer, assuming that the worlds are mostly full of humans....lets say 90%+ full of human coaches.  With this situation in mind, it probably makes a lot of sense for the SIMs to have a very strong advantage, so that that they remain at least semi-competitive.  This then leaves humans to fight humans (which is what we all want, I think).

With that said, when the worlds are only partially full (say less than 50% humans), then the strong SIM concept is improper and their relative strength should be "turned down" a bit.

That could explain why some of the recruits won't even except a CV to start too.  But then after accepting 2 or 3 CVs, the recruit stays red and on the next cycle turns down 3 CVs.  What's with that.  The guy accepted 2 and sometimes 3 CVs the 3rd cycle (Human coachs' 2nd cycle) and then refuses 3 more.  So now here is what has happened.  1st Cycle SIM starts. 2nd cycle SIM builds Human scouts. 3rd Cycle SIM builds, human sends CVs recruit accepts but recruit stays red.  4th cycle SIM builds, human has to offer HCScout to get back in the door and 2 or 3 CVs.  Recruit turns yellow. Human goes to bed.  SIM  5th cycle SIM builds, Human sleeps.  6th cycle SIM builds, Human sleeps.  7th Cycle SIM builds, Human sleeps.  8th Cycle SIM builds, Human gets quick look slaps on 3 CVs and a Soph Start and heads to work. SIM accepts but may not turn green.  If not .. 9th cycle SIM builds, Human works. 10th cycle SIM builds,  Human works.  11th cycle SIM builds Human home from work.  Behind the SIM some more,  Offers 3 - 5 CVs and finally SIM turns green.  As a vet I find this f ed up.  I can hardly imagine how newer guys feel.  This is not a draw to keep people in the game.  But what do I know.  After all it is all about me. This is screwy.  The SIMs never sleep, or work.  They are there every cycle. 

  

Posted by badaxe on 8/19/2012 3:20:00 PM (view original):
It's not EASY. It doesn't work the way I think it should. MOMMY, I mean NORBERT, change it for me.

Why the BS?  If you don't like the topic don't go further.  Why be an ***?  If people don't agree with you they're babies?  You're a shallow minded fool.  Because your mental intellect isn't deep enough to understand the subject matter doesn;t give you license to act rude.  Of course I realize some people don't have the ability to act decent and I certainly don't expect it from some on here but they should at least have the brains to STFU when the grownups are talking.

Posted by grindi on 8/19/2012 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by badaxe on 8/19/2012 3:20:00 PM (view original):
It's not EASY. It doesn't work the way I think it should. MOMMY, I mean NORBERT, change it for me.

Why the BS?  If you don't like the topic don't go further.  Why be an ***?  If people don't agree with you they're babies?  You're a shallow minded fool.  Because your mental intellect isn't deep enough to understand the subject matter doesn;t give you license to act rude.  Of course I realize some people don't have the ability to act decent and I certainly don't expect it from some on here but they should at least have the brains to STFU when the grownups are talking.

Your argument is essentially that since SIMs are not human controlled, they should not be able to recruit anyone except players that humans don't want.

Posted by tcochran on 8/19/2012 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grindi on 8/19/2012 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by badaxe on 8/19/2012 3:20:00 PM (view original):
It's not EASY. It doesn't work the way I think it should. MOMMY, I mean NORBERT, change it for me.

Why the BS?  If you don't like the topic don't go further.  Why be an ***?  If people don't agree with you they're babies?  You're a shallow minded fool.  Because your mental intellect isn't deep enough to understand the subject matter doesn;t give you license to act rude.  Of course I realize some people don't have the ability to act decent and I certainly don't expect it from some on here but they should at least have the brains to STFU when the grownups are talking.

Your argument is essentially that since SIMs are not human controlled, they should not be able to recruit anyone except players that humans don't want.

No that isn't totally it.  But since you put it that way, from a players side it would be beneficial.  I play at another site.   When you join you get a SIM team.  They are ALL awful.  All there players are rated the same as all the other SIM players.  For about 2 weeks  you can't make roster moves.  You can't go to the market and bid on players.  You start building your facilities and training the guys you have.  After you can make roster moves you build and train your team.  But one thing happens.  You will NEVER be beaten by a SIM team.  You don't ever have to battle SIM teams for players.  You may battle teams with 1000 times the money than you but you never have to worry about the SIMs.  I like that.  Obviously the players like it as they are growing by leaps and bounds.  Leagues are filling up.

From WIS' side, if the SIMs win they don't don't pay out prizes keeping more of the profits.  If SIMs can retard a humans progress then the human spends more money and WIS keeps more money.  But here's the thing.  WIS's way isn't working.  People left because the prizes got cut.  People are leaving now.  I haven't even touched on the piece of crap engine it's running.  This game is NOT growing and when someone offers up any reasons as to why. the mouthy bastards on here bash the crap out of them which is another turn off for people.  Personally I would ike to see this game grow and get better but the jackasses on here only want to talk trash instead of doing something constructive like talking about problem areas.

That last is not directed at you rcochran as you always seem to stay close to topic.

Posted by tcochran on 8/19/2012 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grindi on 8/19/2012 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by badaxe on 8/19/2012 3:20:00 PM (view original):
It's not EASY. It doesn't work the way I think it should. MOMMY, I mean NORBERT, change it for me.

Why the BS?  If you don't like the topic don't go further.  Why be an ***?  If people don't agree with you they're babies?  You're a shallow minded fool.  Because your mental intellect isn't deep enough to understand the subject matter doesn;t give you license to act rude.  Of course I realize some people don't have the ability to act decent and I certainly don't expect it from some on here but they should at least have the brains to STFU when the grownups are talking.

Your argument is essentially that since SIMs are not human controlled, they should not be able to recruit anyone except players that humans don't want.

cochran, I don't think the point is that sim's should not be able to recruit. Or recruit decent players. I think they should. From my perspective it is that when I put in the 3k total or somewhere close to that it should still not be on these players. At least not if I'm willing to do this in one fell swoop and at the early stages of the recruit season. 3k is what we get per recruit. Early on if I'm willing to part with that 3k the sim should be gone. If I only want to scout  and call the recruit and drag my feet then I can see the sim hanging on.

Posted by jibe on 8/19/2012 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tcochran on 8/19/2012 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grindi on 8/19/2012 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by badaxe on 8/19/2012 3:20:00 PM (view original):
It's not EASY. It doesn't work the way I think it should. MOMMY, I mean NORBERT, change it for me.

Why the BS?  If you don't like the topic don't go further.  Why be an ***?  If people don't agree with you they're babies?  You're a shallow minded fool.  Because your mental intellect isn't deep enough to understand the subject matter doesn;t give you license to act rude.  Of course I realize some people don't have the ability to act decent and I certainly don't expect it from some on here but they should at least have the brains to STFU when the grownups are talking.

Your argument is essentially that since SIMs are not human controlled, they should not be able to recruit anyone except players that humans don't want.

cochran, I don't think the point is that sim's should not be able to recruit. Or recruit decent players. I think they should. From my perspective it is that when I put in the 3k total or somewhere close to that it should still not be on these players. At least not if I'm willing to do this in one fell swoop and at the early stages of the recruit season. 3k is what we get per recruit. Early on if I'm willing to part with that 3k the sim should be gone. If I only want to scout  and call the recruit and drag my feet then I can see the sim hanging on.

And that it the way it works.

And grindi, I explained my method, have demonstrated my success, and still you whine. STFU, learn how to recruit, and stop whining.

Man this is fun.

Posted by grindi on 8/19/2012 1:25:00 PM (view original):
I give.  3 guys get it and the rest just think the topic is me and my inadaquacies.  Yet if I am so inadaquate, why did they refuse to come play in the same World and Div taking over long term SIMs.  I can't believe how many of you chuckleheads are so narrow minded that everything is personal.  I have had a lot of success with my teams.  Obviously I recruit fine thank you.  All a lot of you clowns do is sling mud.  Jt/Partyrock,  why show up?  Especially both tags when it is the same guy.  You don't like me.  Big deal.  I think your a useless piece af garbage too but I don't show up after every one of your posts.  So why not just crawl back under the rock you came out from under and don't post after me?  Oh yea, I know why.  Because you are classless and rude.

I never said you were a useless piece of garbage.  That would be classless and rude - kinda like using the phrase STFU on a message board.

He said it first!

9500+ at DII and still hanging on.  Even if I get an ac pick it won't hurt the team.  I'm used to this nonsense.  Imagine a new guy playing.  Why would he want to stay?  He will probably have 3 or 4 of these guys.

Sorry to burst some of your prima donna bubbles but what attraction is it to newcomers to join a game that is stacked against them from the start?  How long and how much invested does it take to reach the supposed ultimate goal of getting an elite team?  Even getting to DIA a player is handicapped.  A lot of the mentality here is like corporate America.  Let's bring in technology so we can do the job better and faster.  We save money by not having as many people.  The problem is robots don't buy product.  Here SIMs don't pay the bills.  As long as SIMs keep getting more powerful, and they will because not as many humans are playing thus opening up better players to them, then the human numbers will continue to decline.

I disagree with all of the SIM stuff.  There should be absolutely no way a SIM beats a human especially at DIII where newcomers enter.  It should take not 3000 to drive them off but 1000 or 1500.  After all if a player only goes after players the SIMs can see he will never get to the top.  As long as SIMs can force players to spend their recruit dollars and pull upsets, WIS benefits by not having to hand out rewards and the longer the players think they have a shot of winning they spend money.  But here is the reality.  Vets have quit and are still quitting to the applause of some of you boneheads on here.  New guys are coming in to see what it is about and leaving because the deck is stacked against them.  How many people that got free credits to try this have stayed?  Hardly any.  That last offer to the masses to give away a free season was a slap in the face to the people that have stayed through these miserable times.  They in essence said "we are trying to drum up new business so here's a free game.  By the way vets, screw you."   What do we have 500 players?  Most with more than one team.  It would have cost them squat to give everybody a game.  We've stayed through being Beta testers to now with all the promises of fixing this abomination and the bandaids they've put on and for what?  We are dollars and that is all.  No loyalty returned.  But thats ok, it's now the way of the world.  Get all you can get from someone, then toss them out like an old shoe and find some other sucker.

But again I digress, or is it digest.  The SIM cluster f is Not helping to grow the game at all.  It is having an opposite effect.  I am not whining about it just stating a fact.  Changing a rule for my benefit is not why I even bring it up.  Check my record.  I'm not a greenhorn. The other site I play on has 670,589 managers and NOBODY is allowed more than 1 ID or team in a sport.  If they see the same computer ID they watch it and then ban them when they are sure it is the same user.  They currently have only Soccer, Hockey, and Tennis.  You can play for free but getting the expanded version is better.  They are growing.  WIS is not.  At the other place SIMs are the bottem feeders.  At WIS they are not.  Draw your own conclusion but mine happens to be the SIMs at WIS are far to powerful all the way around and are partly to blame for receeding numbers.

Posted by katzphang88 on 8/19/2012 7:14:00 PM (view original):

I have played against grindi and he knows how to recruit. I have put up top 5 GUESS teams - I know how to recruit. THAT IS NOT THE POINT! This is about how we as end users of this game - now that we have have a developer who is interested - want to play the game. Should SIMs have the ability to put up a recruiting fight - Yes - but not in any way that gives the SIM game an advantage. My team in San Diego is always fighting off Ivy League and east coast schools to the scholarship amount - even though they would be spending $1500 more per CV than me. No human coach could regularly battle cross country with a home town team without the benefits of Fr starts and % playing time - which SIMs don't have. Give SIMs a radius of 200 mi in DIII, 400 mi  in DII, 600 mi in D1AA and 1000 in D1A with appropriate location advantage, but no more.

badaxe as far as your "mommy" comment - it's easy to come on the forum and attempt to make a funny comment - NOW come on and make an intelligent one!

This is completely valid.  

Posted by grindi on 8/19/2012 8:38:00 PM (view original):
9500+ at DII and still hanging on.  Even if I get an ac pick it won't hurt the team.  I'm used to this nonsense.  Imagine a new guy playing.  Why would he want to stay?  He will probably have 3 or 4 of these guys.

Sorry to burst some of your prima donna bubbles but what attraction is it to newcomers to join a game that is stacked against them from the start?  How long and how much invested does it take to reach the supposed ultimate goal of getting an elite team?  Even getting to DIA a player is handicapped.  A lot of the mentality here is like corporate America.  Let's bring in technology so we can do the job better and faster.  We save money by not having as many people.  The problem is robots don't buy product.  Here SIMs don't pay the bills.  As long as SIMs keep getting more powerful, and they will because not as many humans are playing thus opening up better players to them, then the human numbers will continue to decline.

I disagree with all of the SIM stuff.  There should be absolutely no way a SIM beats a human especially at DIII where newcomers enter.  It should take not 3000 to drive them off but 1000 or 1500.  After all if a player only goes after players the SIMs can see he will never get to the top.  As long as SIMs can force players to spend their recruit dollars and pull upsets, WIS benefits by not having to hand out rewards and the longer the players think they have a shot of winning they spend money.  But here is the reality.  Vets have quit and are still quitting to the applause of some of you boneheads on here.  New guys are coming in to see what it is about and leaving because the deck is stacked against them.  How many people that got free credits to try this have stayed?  Hardly any.  That last offer to the masses to give away a free season was a slap in the face to the people that have stayed through these miserable times.  They in essence said "we are trying to drum up new business so here's a free game.  By the way vets, screw you."   What do we have 500 players?  Most with more than one team.  It would have cost them squat to give everybody a game.  We've stayed through being Beta testers to now with all the promises of fixing this abomination and the bandaids they've put on and for what?  We are dollars and that is all.  No loyalty returned.  But thats ok, it's now the way of the world.  Get all you can get from someone, then toss them out like an old shoe and find some other sucker.

But again I digress, or is it digest.  The SIM cluster f is Not helping to grow the game at all.  It is having an opposite effect.  I am not whining about it just stating a fact.  Changing a rule for my benefit is not why I even bring it up.  Check my record.  I'm not a greenhorn. The other site I play on has 670,589 managers and NOBODY is allowed more than 1 ID or team in a sport.  If they see the same computer ID they watch it and then ban them when they are sure it is the same user.  They currently have only Soccer, Hockey, and Tennis.  You can play for free but getting the expanded version is better.  They are growing.  WIS is not.  At the other place SIMs are the bottem feeders.  At WIS they are not.  Draw your own conclusion but mine happens to be the SIMs at WIS are far to powerful all the way around and are partly to blame for receeding numbers.

I agree 100% about the SIMS and recruiting. I also agree that the engine needs fixing. However if Norbert/WIS can change the players not leaving early then why it so hard to change the game so that SIMs have a budget or that SIMs don't recruit farther out than x miles. The problem is that most of us coaches have learned how to recruit and forget that that aspect of the game is the first thing that the new coach is going to deal with. The way it is now, I'm surprised tha many coaches stay after a season or two. I can recruit both ways so it doesn't bother me about the SIMs, especially since there are so many recruits to pick from.

Posted by starfinder77 on 8/20/2012 3:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by grindi on 8/19/2012 8:38:00 PM (view original):
9500+ at DII and still hanging on.  Even if I get an ac pick it won't hurt the team.  I'm used to this nonsense.  Imagine a new guy playing.  Why would he want to stay?  He will probably have 3 or 4 of these guys.

Sorry to burst some of your prima donna bubbles but what attraction is it to newcomers to join a game that is stacked against them from the start?  How long and how much invested does it take to reach the supposed ultimate goal of getting an elite team?  Even getting to DIA a player is handicapped.  A lot of the mentality here is like corporate America.  Let's bring in technology so we can do the job better and faster.  We save money by not having as many people.  The problem is robots don't buy product.  Here SIMs don't pay the bills.  As long as SIMs keep getting more powerful, and they will because not as many humans are playing thus opening up better players to them, then the human numbers will continue to decline.

I disagree with all of the SIM stuff.  There should be absolutely no way a SIM beats a human especially at DIII where newcomers enter.  It should take not 3000 to drive them off but 1000 or 1500.  After all if a player only goes after players the SIMs can see he will never get to the top.  As long as SIMs can force players to spend their recruit dollars and pull upsets, WIS benefits by not having to hand out rewards and the longer the players think they have a shot of winning they spend money.  But here is the reality.  Vets have quit and are still quitting to the applause of some of you boneheads on here.  New guys are coming in to see what it is about and leaving because the deck is stacked against them.  How many people that got free credits to try this have stayed?  Hardly any.  That last offer to the masses to give away a free season was a slap in the face to the people that have stayed through these miserable times.  They in essence said "we are trying to drum up new business so here's a free game.  By the way vets, screw you."   What do we have 500 players?  Most with more than one team.  It would have cost them squat to give everybody a game.  We've stayed through being Beta testers to now with all the promises of fixing this abomination and the bandaids they've put on and for what?  We are dollars and that is all.  No loyalty returned.  But thats ok, it's now the way of the world.  Get all you can get from someone, then toss them out like an old shoe and find some other sucker.

But again I digress, or is it digest.  The SIM cluster f is Not helping to grow the game at all.  It is having an opposite effect.  I am not whining about it just stating a fact.  Changing a rule for my benefit is not why I even bring it up.  Check my record.  I'm not a greenhorn. The other site I play on has 670,589 managers and NOBODY is allowed more than 1 ID or team in a sport.  If they see the same computer ID they watch it and then ban them when they are sure it is the same user.  They currently have only Soccer, Hockey, and Tennis.  You can play for free but getting the expanded version is better.  They are growing.  WIS is not.  At the other place SIMs are the bottem feeders.  At WIS they are not.  Draw your own conclusion but mine happens to be the SIMs at WIS are far to powerful all the way around and are partly to blame for receeding numbers.

I agree 100% about the SIMS and recruiting. I also agree that the engine needs fixing. However if Norbert/WIS can change the players not leaving early then why it so hard to change the game so that SIMs have a budget or that SIMs don't recruit farther out than x miles. The problem is that most of us coaches have learned how to recruit and forget that that aspect of the game is the first thing that the new coach is going to deal with. The way it is now, I'm surprised tha many coaches stay after a season or two. I can recruit both ways so it doesn't bother me about the SIMs, especially since there are so many recruits to pick from.