Planned Update - Later this Year Topic

"I'm not sure just adding distribution will give us what we want either, which is why I'm still trying to keep this conversation going.  Distributions don't answer the problems with the randomness of the aggression settings, and I'll still have to deal with other parts of the passing like what happens when the QB is under pressure or the primary target is covered.  There are some things that can cause what ever distribution controls we add to not reflect the outcome of the game, which means we need to do a better job of explaining why they didn't happen that way.  Might be more acceptable if your top receiver doesn't get targeted as much if you see the other team is always covering him."

Can we get rid of aggressiveness settings? They really are confusing. Just let us pick whether we want to through short - medium or long. Heck - my players always play aggressive!

3/12/2012 9:27 PM
Posted by katzphang88 on 3/6/2012 9:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by norbert on 3/6/2012 5:56:00 PM (view original):
I guess that's my question though.  What does the percentage mean?  Is it just the chance that that player is the primary target?  What about checking down?  Who's next?  Does it just check the rest of the players based on that percentage?  That might work.  The other issue we would need to solve is how to determine where the ball is thrown.  If it's just an aggressiveness setting in the playbook, like it is now, it can lead to some strange behavior like the deep ball going to your RB.  Might not be bad in some cases, but I'd think some people would want some way to control that as well.
If I try to walk through what I would want to play plan in the context of using these situations in my game plan I would want to know that I can use my best players in certain situations with respect to their attributes and have it occur consistently. Maybe to rethink the depth chart would be the best thing. Right now we are locked into positional depth charts and maybe situational depth charts are better. This would allow depth settings for: Run inside/Run outside (for RB, FB, QB, WR), Pass Short/Pass Medium/Pass Long (for RB, FB, TE, WR) with frequency values chosen for each starter and substitute for that situation. You could even add Depth charts for Run block/Pass block (OL, TE, FB, RB, WR with duplicates not allowed in run/pass charts). Attributes would need to be assigned to each selection so RB in Run inside would be different than Run outside, and WR/TE would use different characteristics to be most effective at different distances. Same with OL and Run/pass settings. That would give 5 depth charts specific to play choice, but not formation, so line-change substitutions would be harder to pull off.

Defense could have depth charts for (names are for demonstration purposes only and should not be used at home without professional supervision) Line of Scrimmage (Pass rush, LB and CB blitz, inside runs), Short and Flat (Short passes and outside runs), Cover (Medium and short passing), Prevent (Medium and deep passes). Again different players with different attribute sets would be more efficient for different formations.

If we hold firm on roster limits, it will test us as coaches to produce players to fill multiple roles, and will allow us to develop specialists for certain depth charts.

Game planning would let us set formation, down and distance, and play (like Pass Medium) which would use players in order from that depth chart. Same on Defense. Would be nice to have a setting for field position too.
Posted by Norbert:
GD 1.0 to 2.0 is apples to oranges in many cases.  There is a built in distribution number in 2.0 that is calculated based on the player's slot in the formation and his ratings.  It gives player's with higher receiving ratings a higher distribution number.  I'm pretty sure I can tap into that to allow the distribution to be input from setting rather than calculated.  What it doesn't address is how to change those distributions based on distance or other factors of the game, like if you are in the red zone.  I have a couple ideas and when I get some more time, I'll try to put together a few mocks to see if they make sense.  It will be easier for me to see if the game plan setting will work if I can see them.

I'm thinking we can have some way to set base distributions on a formation either one time or each time you set it in the play book, and then have one setting on a player that modifies his distribution number like we modify a player's 3-pt shots in HD.  But until I look at all the settings, I'm not sure if it will be too complex or too confusing.  I don't think we can go back to the GD 1.0 method of setting depth charts and distributions on the formations themselves, but I will keep that in mind when trying to come up with something.

I think that my earlier idea of crafting depth charts for the 5 potential play choices (Run inside, run outside, Pass short, Pass medium, Pass long) answers many of these questions and would allow coaches to set specific players for specific run locations and for specific pass "routes" in specific parts of the field. This would eliminate the possibility of FB deep because the FB wouldn't be in that distribution unless wanted there. I could provide for player distributions inside each depth chart by setting distro percentages (say for pass short Bob - WR - 30%, Bill - TE - 40%, Ted - RB - 30% in short pass area of depth chart). It would eliminate the randomness of players in the wrong area getting looks. Substitutions would occur when WR #1 goes out it will search the depth chart for the next WR and distribution %. Game plan settings would pull from appropriate depth chart (Formation: Pro set - Pass short). Each of the depth charts could be individualized or modified for run, block, catch, etc. Defensive depth charts could take advantage of those specialists also.
3/12/2012 10:10 PM
I like where this is heading with the offensive settings.  I think we need changes on the defensive side, too.  I'd like to see settings somewhat like this for each position.

Tendency (this is what that position is keying on on a particular play, not how close or far away from the LOS they line up):
Run
Balanced 
Pass

Blitz (Could go with a percentage or):
Very Conservative - Very Aggressive

Coverage:
Very Conservative - Very Aggressive


Just throwing that out there.  Please feel free to expand and critique the idea.
3/13/2012 10:19 AM
Something I would like added would be the ability to chat across conferences, You are able to do this in Hoops Dynasty and it shouldn't be too hard to implement.
3/13/2012 12:38 PM
Posted by 0bigzeke0 on 3/12/2012 9:27:00 PM (view original):
"I'm not sure just adding distribution will give us what we want either, which is why I'm still trying to keep this conversation going.  Distributions don't answer the problems with the randomness of the aggression settings, and I'll still have to deal with other parts of the passing like what happens when the QB is under pressure or the primary target is covered.  There are some things that can cause what ever distribution controls we add to not reflect the outcome of the game, which means we need to do a better job of explaining why they didn't happen that way.  Might be more acceptable if your top receiver doesn't get targeted as much if you see the other team is always covering him."

Can we get rid of aggressiveness settings? They really are confusing. Just let us pick whether we want to through short - medium or long. Heck - my players always play aggressive!

That's a pretty good point, actually.  The aggressiveness settings are, and have always been, a layer of abstraction that really just confuses the reality of what you're trying to do... or what you actually are doing.  The more straight-forward the settings are (whatever the end up becoming) and the more closely the setting language is tied with the game play outcome, the better for everyone involved.
3/13/2012 1:30 PM
What ever is decided please keep in mind that some coaches are as concerned at least as much about def. settings and play calling as offense, if not more. I think it's every bit as important that we're able to double team receivers, blitz how and when we want to, etc. as it is to determine the WR we throw to.
3/13/2012 5:04 PM
We will definitely have similar discussions about defense, but while we are on a roll with offensive settings, I'd like to get those hashed out.  I think it's also a good idea to work the "aggressiveness" settings out of the game and replace them with clearer choices.
3/14/2012 11:29 AM
Posted by norbert on 3/14/2012 11:29:00 AM (view original):
We will definitely have similar discussions about defense, but while we are on a roll with offensive settings, I'd like to get those hashed out.  I think it's also a good idea to work the "aggressiveness" settings out of the game and replace them with clearer choices.
3/14/2012 3:05 PM
Posted by bhouska on 3/14/2012 3:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by norbert on 3/14/2012 11:29:00 AM (view original):
We will definitely have similar discussions about defense, but while we are on a roll with offensive settings, I'd like to get those hashed out.  I think it's also a good idea to work the "aggressiveness" settings out of the game and replace them with clearer choices.
3/14/2012 4:19 PM
Posted by flipdog0 on 3/13/2012 12:38:00 PM (view original):
Something I would like added would be the ability to chat across conferences, You are able to do this in Hoops Dynasty and it shouldn't be too hard to implement.
I will second this. Already suggested it, but getting it back into Norbert's eyes...
3/15/2012 8:50 AM
Posted by timberdrive on 3/15/2012 8:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by flipdog0 on 3/13/2012 12:38:00 PM (view original):
Something I would like added would be the ability to chat across conferences, You are able to do this in Hoops Dynasty and it shouldn't be too hard to implement.
I will second this. Already suggested it, but getting it back into Norbert's eyes...
Again, I say!
3/15/2012 1:01 PM
Not really on topic, but wanted to get this out there.  Anyway to generate xml, json, etc of the play by play so someone can create an app to actually "watch" the game?  I don't need real players running around or anything fancy, but it would be great to be able to view the line-by-line play without seeing what is happening next. Or seeing that the scroll bar is longer than normal in the 4th Q, so you know overtime is coming.

It would be great if you guys provided this, but he next best thing would be to generate a data file for a user to build something with.  Thanks for listening, glad I've found my way back to a game that is improving and certainly on the right track!
3/19/2012 2:34 PM
Posted by owenj24 on 3/19/2012 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Not really on topic, but wanted to get this out there.  Anyway to generate xml, json, etc of the play by play so someone can create an app to actually "watch" the game?  I don't need real players running around or anything fancy, but it would be great to be able to view the line-by-line play without seeing what is happening next. Or seeing that the scroll bar is longer than normal in the 4th Q, so you know overtime is coming.

It would be great if you guys provided this, but he next best thing would be to generate a data file for a user to build something with.  Thanks for listening, glad I've found my way back to a game that is improving and certainly on the right track!
This goes for everyone.......Im going to sift through this thread, but filter your ideas to here:

http://wisjournal.com/forums/Posts.aspx?TopicID=452970&TopicsTimeframe=30

I'll be checking that thread more often.  Glad to see you slowly coming back owen.
3/19/2012 10:20 PM
Posted by team_fapn on 3/19/2012 10:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by owenj24 on 3/19/2012 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Not really on topic, but wanted to get this out there.  Anyway to generate xml, json, etc of the play by play so someone can create an app to actually "watch" the game?  I don't need real players running around or anything fancy, but it would be great to be able to view the line-by-line play without seeing what is happening next. Or seeing that the scroll bar is longer than normal in the 4th Q, so you know overtime is coming.

It would be great if you guys provided this, but he next best thing would be to generate a data file for a user to build something with.  Thanks for listening, glad I've found my way back to a game that is improving and certainly on the right track!
This goes for everyone.......Im going to sift through this thread, but filter your ideas to here:

http://wisjournal.com/forums/Posts.aspx?TopicID=452970&TopicsTimeframe=30

I'll be checking that thread more often.  Glad to see you slowly coming back owen.
You really going to hijack norberts post?
3/20/2012 10:26 PM
Posted by fermor332002 on 3/20/2012 10:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by team_fapn on 3/19/2012 10:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by owenj24 on 3/19/2012 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Not really on topic, but wanted to get this out there.  Anyway to generate xml, json, etc of the play by play so someone can create an app to actually "watch" the game?  I don't need real players running around or anything fancy, but it would be great to be able to view the line-by-line play without seeing what is happening next. Or seeing that the scroll bar is longer than normal in the 4th Q, so you know overtime is coming.

It would be great if you guys provided this, but he next best thing would be to generate a data file for a user to build something with.  Thanks for listening, glad I've found my way back to a game that is improving and certainly on the right track!
This goes for everyone.......Im going to sift through this thread, but filter your ideas to here:

http://wisjournal.com/forums/Posts.aspx?TopicID=452970&TopicsTimeframe=30

I'll be checking that thread more often.  Glad to see you slowly coming back owen.
You really going to hijack norberts post?
hijack?  if you go read the other thread i clearly state that the reason for it is to gather feedback in a much more organized manner, compared to the randomly dispensed ideas in this thread.  and i also said ill be reading through this whole thread, which i already did, and compiling a list of ideas for the council.  so go have a beer, or smoke some weed.  relax.
3/22/2012 11:23 PM
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Planned Update - Later this Year Topic

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