Posted by tecwrg on 11/3/2012 9:16:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bistiza on 11/2/2012 3:47:00 PM (view original):
I know from personal experience that people make stupid and irresponsible financial decisions and have nobody to blame but themselves.
Yes, people do make mistakes. So do you and I and everyone. That doesn't mean we should go around attacking everyone who fails at something because of a mistake they made.
And I also believe that there are welfare queens and unemployment kings who are perfectly happy to live off the government handouts and make no effort to become self-sufficient. They've settled into a lifestyle that they are comfortable with and resist any efforts to encourage them to better themselves.
You're right - there are people like this. Still, to think everyone who is poor is like this is extremely myopic and wrong.
I'll play devil's advocate to try to get you to see how narrow minded that view is:
In America, most people seek to find a lifestyle where they are comfortable. So if someone finds a way to be "settled into a lifestyle that they are comfortable with", who are we to suggest they should do otherwise? Why are you attacking them for doing what most Americans attempt to do?
If someone is independently wealthy and decides they are comfortable and don't ever want to work, is that okay? What if someone has a spouse who pays all the bills and they decide they don't want to work because they are comfortable, is that okay? They're settling into a comfortable lifestyle and choosing not to work, so based on what you said you should be advocating that they better themselves and go to work anyway.
If your argument is people who use government resources shouldn't do that, perhaps the energy you and others spend judging these people for doing what most people try to do (but in a way you disapprove of) would be to go to the source (the government) and advocate change rather than wasting your energy on judgment for those who are living their lives the way the system lets them.
Wow. Even I didn't expect my devil's advocate argument to come together so well. Now I have to remind myself to advocate change rather than judging others for taking advantage of what is there the same way anyone else does.
?
"In America, most people seek to find a lifestyle where they are comfortable. So if someone finds a way to be "settled into a lifestyle that they are comfortable with", who are we to suggest they should do otherwise?"
Not if their chosen lifestyle is to live primarily off of government handouts, which is paid for out of the taxes that I pay based on the work that I do. Why should my hard work subsidize the lifestyle of somebody who chooses not to work?
"If someone is independently wealthy and decides they are comfortable and don't ever want to work, is that okay?"
Sure. If they're not taking government handouts, they are free to live their life anyway they want.
"What if someone has a spouse who pays all the bills and they decide they don't want to work because they are comfortable, is that okay?"
Sure. If they're not taking government handouts, they are free to live their life anyway they want.
"They're settling into a comfortable lifestyle and choosing not to work, so based on what you said you should be advocating that they better themselves and go to work anyway."
My comment was directed towards those who choose to live primarily off of government handouts. Not to everybody. That was clearly established in my comment.
"If your argument is people who use government resources shouldn't do that, perhaps the energy you and others spend judging these people for doing what most people try to do (but in a way you disapprove of) would be to go to the source (the government) and advocate change rather than wasting your energy on judgment for those who are living their lives the way the system lets them."
That is why I'll be voting for Romney on Tuesday.
"Wow. Even I didn't expect my devil's advocate argument to come together so well."
Go ahead and pat yourself on the back. You pretty much twisted every one of my statements out of context and ignored the gist of my comments in your "devil's advocate argument". Well done.
"Now I have to remind myself to advocate change rather than judging others for taking advantage of what is there the same way anyone else does."
You say "taking advantage". I say "abusing the system".
Was your father abusing the system when he supported your family on government checks? Do you believe they were just "free handouts"?
If your answer is no to the questions....who are you to generalize who and how people are living off government assistance? How do you know their situation isn't the same as yours? As someone who has benefited immensely from the social safety net, I find it odd that you would have such little compassion for those that need it as well. You do realize that your dad is part of Mitt's 47 percent...or would have been. How does it feel that your candidate would have found your dad to be a freeloader?
It reminds me of the guy in the Pit who argued and argued about how bad government in our lives were, and how people loved to live off the government teat...only to find out that his family made their money off nursing homes.