DOMA & Prop 8 Topic

Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 9:50:00 AM (view original):
What burns said. It here are exceptions to every rule but for the vast majority of the population, there is no choice in sexuality.

So, at this point, you're claiming that SOME people have a choice in their sexuality?

Isn't that counter to what you've argued for about 100 pages?

I'm claiming that, in your extreme example, if someone is born asexual and then decide they want to have sex with someone they weren't attracted to originally, then yes they chose to have a gay or straight relationship. But I'd also question whether they were actually asexual to begin with. I've never heard of anyone actually being asexual.
Do you think there are any people who die virgins?   

Do you think they simply never had sex because the opportunity didn't present itself?
5/1/2013 10:11 AM
Your definition of sexuality is different from mine.  So in your definition, I agree with you.

So you agree with me that the logically correct definition that hasn't been influenced by propaganda means people don't choose their sexuality.

Great. Now all we need you to do is to stop supporting the propaganda-based definition to support its agenda, but I know better than to think you'll do that.
5/1/2013 10:12 AM
I just did some reading on asexuals. Most are either straight or gay and have romantic feelings towards one gender or another. They just don't want sex.
5/1/2013 10:14 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/1/2013 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 9:50:00 AM (view original):
What burns said. It here are exceptions to every rule but for the vast majority of the population, there is no choice in sexuality.

So, at this point, you're claiming that SOME people have a choice in their sexuality?

Isn't that counter to what you've argued for about 100 pages?

Yes.  And some people are born with tails.  If I say "humans don't have tails" would you say "NO! SOME DO!"
OK, I'll get to the point(even if it makes me feel dirty).

biz has argued against gay marriage because he claims it's a lifestyle choice.    burnsyluck has argued "NOFUCKINGWAY!!!  THEY'RE BORN GAY!!!!"

Now, you and your buddy are saying "Well, yeah, I guess, if you insist, there might be exceptions.  Maybe.  I don't know.  I've never actually met an exception but, I guess, I haven't met everybody.  Well, maybe."   Then you throw out a percentage like you have some solid data.

Honestly, if both of you hadn't responded to my "Maybe it's a little more complicated than any of us know" comment, neither of you would look quite as wishy-washy stupid right now.
5/1/2013 10:16 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 9:50:00 AM (view original):
What burns said. It here are exceptions to every rule but for the vast majority of the population, there is no choice in sexuality.

So, at this point, you're claiming that SOME people have a choice in their sexuality?

Isn't that counter to what you've argued for about 100 pages?

I'm claiming that, in your extreme example, if someone is born asexual and then decide they want to have sex with someone they weren't attracted to originally, then yes they chose to have a gay or straight relationship. But I'd also question whether they were actually asexual to begin with. I've never heard of anyone actually being asexual.
Do you think there are any people who die virgins?   

Do you think they simply never had sex because the opportunity didn't present itself?
You've lost track of the point. People don't get to choose their attractions. They may change over time, but it isn't something that can be controlled.
5/1/2013 10:17 AM
Having "feelings" for one gender or another doesn't make you straight or gay. It simply is what it is.
5/1/2013 10:17 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 10:14:00 AM (view original):
I just did some reading on asexuals. Most are either straight or gay and have romantic feelings towards one gender or another. They just don't want sex.
Is "most" the same as "all" where you live?
5/1/2013 10:17 AM
Posted by bistiza on 5/1/2013 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Your definition of sexuality is different from mine.  So in your definition, I agree with you.

So you agree with me that the logically correct definition that hasn't been influenced by propaganda means people don't choose their sexuality.

Great. Now all we need you to do is to stop supporting the propaganda-based definition to support its agenda, but I know better than to think you'll do that.
I think your first statement was worded incorrectly?

Again, I disagree with the fact the propaganda exists in the first place.  Not everything is conspiracy.  You haven't presented a good enough reason for me to believe that.  So we'll disagree on that, I guess.


5/1/2013 10:18 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:16:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/1/2013 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 9:50:00 AM (view original):
What burns said. It here are exceptions to every rule but for the vast majority of the population, there is no choice in sexuality.

So, at this point, you're claiming that SOME people have a choice in their sexuality?

Isn't that counter to what you've argued for about 100 pages?

Yes.  And some people are born with tails.  If I say "humans don't have tails" would you say "NO! SOME DO!"
OK, I'll get to the point(even if it makes me feel dirty).

biz has argued against gay marriage because he claims it's a lifestyle choice.    burnsyluck has argued "NOFUCKINGWAY!!!  THEY'RE BORN GAY!!!!"

Now, you and your buddy are saying "Well, yeah, I guess, if you insist, there might be exceptions.  Maybe.  I don't know.  I've never actually met an exception but, I guess, I haven't met everybody.  Well, maybe."   Then you throw out a percentage like you have some solid data.

Honestly, if both of you hadn't responded to my "Maybe it's a little more complicated than any of us know" comment, neither of you would look quite as wishy-washy stupid right now.
Oh I get it know. You hate it when someone makes a general point and doesn't hedge against all possible exceptions. Chill out, woman.
5/1/2013 10:21 AM (edited)
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 9:50:00 AM (view original):
What burns said. It here are exceptions to every rule but for the vast majority of the population, there is no choice in sexuality.

So, at this point, you're claiming that SOME people have a choice in their sexuality?

Isn't that counter to what you've argued for about 100 pages?

I'm claiming that, in your extreme example, if someone is born asexual and then decide they want to have sex with someone they weren't attracted to originally, then yes they chose to have a gay or straight relationship. But I'd also question whether they were actually asexual to begin with. I've never heard of anyone actually being asexual.
Do you think there are any people who die virgins?   

Do you think they simply never had sex because the opportunity didn't present itself?
You've lost track of the point. People don't get to choose their attractions. They may change over time, but it isn't something that can be controlled.
So one isn't born gay or straight?
5/1/2013 10:18 AM
Usually you are. But things can change. I don't think I ever argued that they couldn't, just that there isn't a choice involved when it comes to attraction.
5/1/2013 10:20 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 10:21:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:16:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/1/2013 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/1/2013 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/1/2013 9:50:00 AM (view original):
What burns said. It here are exceptions to every rule but for the vast majority of the population, there is no choice in sexuality.

So, at this point, you're claiming that SOME people have a choice in their sexuality?

Isn't that counter to what you've argued for about 100 pages?

Yes.  And some people are born with tails.  If I say "humans don't have tails" would you say "NO! SOME DO!"
OK, I'll get to the point(even if it makes me feel dirty).

biz has argued against gay marriage because he claims it's a lifestyle choice.    burnsyluck has argued "NOFUCKINGWAY!!!  THEY'RE BORN GAY!!!!"

Now, you and your buddy are saying "Well, yeah, I guess, if you insist, there might be exceptions.  Maybe.  I don't know.  I've never actually met an exception but, I guess, I haven't met everybody.  Well, maybe."   Then you throw out a percentage like you have some solid data.

Honestly, if both of you hadn't responded to my "Maybe it's a little more complicated than any of us know" comment, neither of you would look quite as wishy-washy stupid right now.
Oh I get it know. You hate it when someone makes a general point and doesn't hedge against all possible exceptions. Chill out, woman.
It's not quite that.

It's just that a few of you have been so sure you're right that you can't even hear the other POV.   

Now, to get back to page 1, if you believe that it's possible that one can choose to be gay, couldn't one choose to be straight?   And get a legal marriage within the confines of the law?   After all, choosing to be gay is more difficult and will prevent a legal marriage in many states.
5/1/2013 10:21 AM
The other POV is bis. I'll mark you down as agreeing with him. Good job.

I don't believe that sexuality is a choice because it is based on attraction that you can't control.
5/1/2013 10:23 AM
Again, I disagree with the fact the propaganda exists in the first place.

Of course you do. You're in favor of the agenda it puts forward and are aware that propaganda doesn't work very well when people recognize it for what it is, so you have every reason to deny its existence.
You haven't presented a good enough reason for me to believe that.

You'll never admit you not only believe it but know the agenda exists because you have good reason not to (see above).
5/1/2013 10:23 AM
The other POV is bis. I'll mark you down as agreeing with him. Good job.

There are plenty of people who agree with me - just none who had said so on here as yet.

And finding a way to agree with logical reasoning could be said to be a "good job", so for once you said something that is correct.
5/1/2013 10:25 AM
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DOMA & Prop 8 Topic

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