Maybe the Problem Isn't Guns After All Topic

tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 4/11/2014 2:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 1:42:00 PM (view original):
Do knives misfire or jam?   Perhaps the kid pulls the trigger, the gun jams and he simply takes an assbeating from the wrestling team.

It's dumb to say "Yeah, he stabbed 20 but, with a gun, he'd have killed three!!!" with any certainty.   The kid wasn't ex-Seal Team Six. 
What an incredibly stupid and disingenuous argument.  Did the Sandy Hook shooter have elite paramilitary training?  If so, I must have missed that.

Unless you really believe what you're saying.

I'd like to give you more credit than that.

I submit that the Sandy Hook ******* could have killed a shitload of 6 year olds with a cinder block. 

Again, to say "With a gun, there would have certainly been fatalities" is stupid.    He could have pulled a Plaxico and shot himself in the leg.  

If you want to argue gun control, please do.    Just don't create scenarios that don't exist.   There are plenty of real examples where guns were used.  Perhaps tighter laws would have helped.   But, in this case, the kid used a knife.    
Nothing is certain.

But it's incredibly stupid to deny the greater likelihood of fatalities had a gun been used instead of a knife.

Seriously.  You're really not trying to sell that as part of your argument, are you?

4/11/2014 3:16 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:15:00 PM (view original):

Unlikely.   He had a gun that I'd have no problem restricting ownership with very tight gun laws.    But this kid in PA didn't have a gun.   I don't know that he'd have killed anyone with a firearm.   But you and tec do.   How many would he have killed if he had the same type of gun as Lanza?  I'm sure you and tec know.

I never said I did know.  I would say odds are that more than 0 children would have died.
4/11/2014 3:17 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:05:00 PM (view original):
Anyway, I have no issue with tighter gun laws and stiffer penalties for unregistered guns.  The govt could pass a law today requiring that every firearm you possess must be registered in 30 days.    And they could issue jail time to anyone possessing an unregistered gun on day 31 without a word of complaint from me.   They could confiscate guns from anyone who is trying to register their gun if they don't meet the new requirements and I'm not griping. 

But it's pointless to argue with anyone who says "That idiot in PA would have killed people if he had a gun!!!" because that's a dumb argument.    We don't know.
The likelihood of fatalities is much higher.  I never said anything would or would not happen.
Much higher?    Care to link your proof, professor?
You're asking for the link to the research that shows that people with guns kill more than those with knives?
4/11/2014 3:18 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 2:22:00 PM (view original):
You and 19 of your closest friends and family are in a room.  A crazed man with a weapon appears.  Would you rather the weapon be a gun or a knife?
I'll use the same logic I used with tec.   If you want to argue gun control, please do.   But don't create scenarios that don't exist.   WHAT IF I HAD A NUCLEAR WARHEAD FROM WAL-MART!?!?!?!  IN THAT CASE, I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS CRAZED MAN HAS!!!!   I JUST DETONATE MY WARHEAD AND TAKE OUT THE ENTIRE BLOCK!!!!!!
I'll take your non-answer as "no preference."  Natural selection, I guess, is a good thing then.
I answered.    Would I be allowed to pass out my guns prior to your pretend crazed man entering the room?
No. 
4/11/2014 3:20 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:05:00 PM (view original):
Anyway, I have no issue with tighter gun laws and stiffer penalties for unregistered guns.  The govt could pass a law today requiring that every firearm you possess must be registered in 30 days.    And they could issue jail time to anyone possessing an unregistered gun on day 31 without a word of complaint from me.   They could confiscate guns from anyone who is trying to register their gun if they don't meet the new requirements and I'm not griping. 

But it's pointless to argue with anyone who says "That idiot in PA would have killed people if he had a gun!!!" because that's a dumb argument.    We don't know.
The likelihood of fatalities is much higher.  I never said anything would or would not happen.
Much higher?    Care to link your proof, professor?
You're asking for the link to the research that shows that people with guns kill more than those with knives?
No. I want a link to the research that shows the kid in PA would have killed people with a gun.  
4/11/2014 3:20 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 2:22:00 PM (view original):
You and 19 of your closest friends and family are in a room.  A crazed man with a weapon appears.  Would you rather the weapon be a gun or a knife?
I'll use the same logic I used with tec.   If you want to argue gun control, please do.   But don't create scenarios that don't exist.   WHAT IF I HAD A NUCLEAR WARHEAD FROM WAL-MART!?!?!?!  IN THAT CASE, I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS CRAZED MAN HAS!!!!   I JUST DETONATE MY WARHEAD AND TAKE OUT THE ENTIRE BLOCK!!!!!!
I'll take your non-answer as "no preference."  Natural selection, I guess, is a good thing then.
I answered.    Would I be allowed to pass out my guns prior to your pretend crazed man entering the room?
No. 
Why not?
4/11/2014 3:20 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 2:22:00 PM (view original):
You and 19 of your closest friends and family are in a room.  A crazed man with a weapon appears.  Would you rather the weapon be a gun or a knife?
I'll use the same logic I used with tec.   If you want to argue gun control, please do.   But don't create scenarios that don't exist.   WHAT IF I HAD A NUCLEAR WARHEAD FROM WAL-MART!?!?!?!  IN THAT CASE, I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS CRAZED MAN HAS!!!!   I JUST DETONATE MY WARHEAD AND TAKE OUT THE ENTIRE BLOCK!!!!!!
I'll take your non-answer as "no preference."  Natural selection, I guess, is a good thing then.
I answered.    Would I be allowed to pass out my guns prior to your pretend crazed man entering the room?
No. 
Why not?
You can have knives.  Because, same thing, right?
4/11/2014 3:21 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:15:00 PM (view original):

Unlikely.   He had a gun that I'd have no problem restricting ownership with very tight gun laws.    But this kid in PA didn't have a gun.   I don't know that he'd have killed anyone with a firearm.   But you and tec do.   How many would he have killed if he had the same type of gun as Lanza?  I'm sure you and tec know.

I never said I did know.  I would say odds are that more than 0 children would have died.
And I suggest that driving a car into a crowd standing outside would have produced a higher chance of fatalities than a knife.
4/11/2014 3:22 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 2:22:00 PM (view original):
You and 19 of your closest friends and family are in a room.  A crazed man with a weapon appears.  Would you rather the weapon be a gun or a knife?
I'll use the same logic I used with tec.   If you want to argue gun control, please do.   But don't create scenarios that don't exist.   WHAT IF I HAD A NUCLEAR WARHEAD FROM WAL-MART!?!?!?!  IN THAT CASE, I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS CRAZED MAN HAS!!!!   I JUST DETONATE MY WARHEAD AND TAKE OUT THE ENTIRE BLOCK!!!!!!
I'll take your non-answer as "no preference."  Natural selection, I guess, is a good thing then.
I answered.    Would I be allowed to pass out my guns prior to your pretend crazed man entering the room?
No. 
Why not?
You can have knives.  Because, same thing, right?
Can I have a nuclear warhead?
4/11/2014 3:22 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:15:00 PM (view original):

Unlikely.   He had a gun that I'd have no problem restricting ownership with very tight gun laws.    But this kid in PA didn't have a gun.   I don't know that he'd have killed anyone with a firearm.   But you and tec do.   How many would he have killed if he had the same type of gun as Lanza?  I'm sure you and tec know.

I never said I did know.  I would say odds are that more than 0 children would have died.
And I suggest that driving a car into a crowd standing outside would have produced a higher chance of fatalities than a knife.
OK. I'm not sure how it's relevant. He had a knife and went inside a school.
4/11/2014 3:24 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 2:22:00 PM (view original):
You and 19 of your closest friends and family are in a room.  A crazed man with a weapon appears.  Would you rather the weapon be a gun or a knife?
I'll use the same logic I used with tec.   If you want to argue gun control, please do.   But don't create scenarios that don't exist.   WHAT IF I HAD A NUCLEAR WARHEAD FROM WAL-MART!?!?!?!  IN THAT CASE, I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS CRAZED MAN HAS!!!!   I JUST DETONATE MY WARHEAD AND TAKE OUT THE ENTIRE BLOCK!!!!!!
I'll take your non-answer as "no preference."  Natural selection, I guess, is a good thing then.
I answered.    Would I be allowed to pass out my guns prior to your pretend crazed man entering the room?
No. 
Why not?
You can have knives.  Because, same thing, right?
Can I have a nuclear warhead?
You can have knives.  Because, same thing, right?
4/11/2014 3:24 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:15:00 PM (view original):

Unlikely.   He had a gun that I'd have no problem restricting ownership with very tight gun laws.    But this kid in PA didn't have a gun.   I don't know that he'd have killed anyone with a firearm.   But you and tec do.   How many would he have killed if he had the same type of gun as Lanza?  I'm sure you and tec know.

I never said I did know.  I would say odds are that more than 0 children would have died.
And I suggest that driving a car into a crowd standing outside would have produced a higher chance of fatalities than a knife.
OK. I'm not sure how it's relevant. He had a knife and went inside a school.
He sure did.   Why are we discussing guns, cars and the potential of fatalities if those were his weapons of choice?
4/11/2014 3:25 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 2:22:00 PM (view original):
You and 19 of your closest friends and family are in a room.  A crazed man with a weapon appears.  Would you rather the weapon be a gun or a knife?
I'll use the same logic I used with tec.   If you want to argue gun control, please do.   But don't create scenarios that don't exist.   WHAT IF I HAD A NUCLEAR WARHEAD FROM WAL-MART!?!?!?!  IN THAT CASE, I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS CRAZED MAN HAS!!!!   I JUST DETONATE MY WARHEAD AND TAKE OUT THE ENTIRE BLOCK!!!!!!
I'll take your non-answer as "no preference."  Natural selection, I guess, is a good thing then.
I answered.    Would I be allowed to pass out my guns prior to your pretend crazed man entering the room?
No. 
Why not?
You can have knives.  Because, same thing, right?
Can I have a nuclear warhead?
You can have knives.  Because, same thing, right?
What if he's in a tank?    Can I have a bazooka?
4/11/2014 3:26 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:15:00 PM (view original):

Unlikely.   He had a gun that I'd have no problem restricting ownership with very tight gun laws.    But this kid in PA didn't have a gun.   I don't know that he'd have killed anyone with a firearm.   But you and tec do.   How many would he have killed if he had the same type of gun as Lanza?  I'm sure you and tec know.

I never said I did know.  I would say odds are that more than 0 children would have died.
And I suggest that driving a car into a crowd standing outside would have produced a higher chance of fatalities than a knife.
OK. I'm not sure how it's relevant. He had a knife and went inside a school.
He sure did.   Why are we discussing guns, cars and the potential of fatalities if those were his weapons of choice?
The topic of the conversation was comparing knives to guns. See: "Maybe the Problem Isn't Guns After All"

If lives were saved because this kid had difficulty finding a gun because of gun control laws, that's a good thing.  
4/11/2014 3:28 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2014 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2014 2:22:00 PM (view original):
You and 19 of your closest friends and family are in a room.  A crazed man with a weapon appears.  Would you rather the weapon be a gun or a knife?
I'll use the same logic I used with tec.   If you want to argue gun control, please do.   But don't create scenarios that don't exist.   WHAT IF I HAD A NUCLEAR WARHEAD FROM WAL-MART!?!?!?!  IN THAT CASE, I DON'T CARE WHAT THIS CRAZED MAN HAS!!!!   I JUST DETONATE MY WARHEAD AND TAKE OUT THE ENTIRE BLOCK!!!!!!
I'll take your non-answer as "no preference."  Natural selection, I guess, is a good thing then.
I answered.    Would I be allowed to pass out my guns prior to your pretend crazed man entering the room?
No. 
Why not?
You can have knives.  Because, same thing, right?
Can I have a nuclear warhead?
You can have knives.  Because, same thing, right?
What if he's in a tank?    Can I have a bazooka?
He's not.

Would you rather he have a knife or a gun?
4/11/2014 3:29 PM
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