Minimum Wage Topic

bad_luck
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Posted by The Taint on 6/12/2014 4:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/12/2014 3:46:00 PM (view original):
Nah, I speak English.

So you're saying the average guy values dollar 1 million the same way average guy values dollar 50000? Assuming that's the last dollar he just made. If you were to take a way a dollar from both of them, they'd feel the same way about it?
If guy one has 1 million in yearly debt, and guy 2 has 25,000 in yearly debt, which guy values his last dollar more?
Who values a sandwich at lunch more, a guy who hasn't eaten in three days or a guy who stuffed himself at the Bellagio breakfast buffet that morning?
6/12/2014 4:55 PM
moy23
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I value all my money equally.... I value my January paychecks just as much as my December paychecks.

This is a stupid argument. You either value money and you save it..... Or you don't value money and you spend it. I don't care what specific dollar that is or of its a $50 bill or a 1 cent penny.
6/12/2014 4:56 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by moy23 on 6/12/2014 4:56:00 PM (view original):
I value all my money equally.... I value my January paychecks just as much as my December paychecks.

This is a stupid argument. You either value money and you save it..... Or you don't value money and you spend it. I don't care what specific dollar that is or of its a $50 bill or a 1 cent penny.
Think of it this way. Is there an amount of money that you could have where adding more money doesn't improve your quality of life?

For example, if you made $10 billion already this year, would adding another $100,000 make a noticeable difference?
6/12/2014 5:39 PM
bad_luck
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That last $100,000 has diminished marginal utility to you when you already have $10 billion.
6/12/2014 5:40 PM
moy23
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 5:40:00 PM (view original):
That last $100,000 has diminished marginal utility to you when you already have $10 billion.
Does anyone actually earn $10 billion in one year?
6/12/2014 7:45 PM
toddcommish
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 5:40:00 PM (view original):
That last $100,000 has diminished marginal utility to you when you already have $10 billion.
That doesn't mean you didn't EARN it.  Why are you trying to take that money away...  just to give it to others who didn't work?
6/12/2014 7:51 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by moy23 on 6/12/2014 7:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 5:40:00 PM (view original):
That last $100,000 has diminished marginal utility to you when you already have $10 billion.
Does anyone actually earn $10 billion in one year?
Taken to the extreme to highlight the point. As the income grows, each dollar raises the quality of life less.
6/12/2014 7:59 PM
moy23
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 7:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 6/12/2014 7:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 5:40:00 PM (view original):
That last $100,000 has diminished marginal utility to you when you already have $10 billion.
Does anyone actually earn $10 billion in one year?
Taken to the extreme to highlight the point. As the income grows, each dollar raises the quality of life less.
Interesting.... As my income grows I spend more time at work and less time with my family. How is that a better quality of life?

Edit - in addition - as my income grows I have no time to play golf or go to bars with friends. I barely see my parents unless I plan it weeks in advance. I leave for work at 7a and get home at 7p. I sometimes work 6 days a week. Sure I make over $100,000 but that's at a great sacrifice to 'quality of life'. I don't complain... I know why I do it and why I sacrifice the things I love doing - its for my family and if I live long enough, my retirement. What bothers me is that people who have poor work ethic think its OK to take my hard earned money and give it to the 28% of people in poverty that somehow have enough money to buy cigarettes because quote 'their poor'. THEN STOP ******* SMOKING!
6/12/2014 8:33 PM (edited)
bad_luck
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Maybe read my post a little closer.
6/12/2014 8:37 PM
MikeT23
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Quality of life = purchasing power?

Interesting.   The most fun I've ever had was when I had nothing.   Buy a bottle of cheap booze and...
A) invite the boys over and drink ourselves into ********
B) hang with the girlfriend, watch one of our 3 TV channels and **** all day.

No money, responsibilities or worries.  Being poor ain't as bad as you make it out to be.

6/12/2014 8:40 PM
moy23
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Maybe read my post a little closer.
you want to take more of the money I sacrifice for now (intended for my childrens education and my retirement) so that 28% of strangers can smoke cigs they apparently don't have the money to buy. All because you think that money matters more to them, than me. I find that repulsive. I gladly help those in need and donate a lot of my time to do so which is way more valuable to a poor or disabled person than money... too bad the govt cant figure that out.

begs the question - do you really think welfare checks help get people out of poverty? And if so, what %?
6/12/2014 9:30 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by moy23 on 6/12/2014 9:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Maybe read my post a little closer.
you want to take more of the money I sacrifice for now (intended for my childrens education and my retirement) so that 28% of strangers can smoke cigs they apparently don't have the money to buy. All because you think that money matters more to them, than me. I find that repulsive. I gladly help those in need and donate a lot of my time to do so which is way more valuable to a poor or disabled person than money... too bad the govt cant figure that out.

begs the question - do you really think welfare checks help get people out of poverty? And if so, what %?
Someone making 100k a year with a wife and kids qualifies as middle class. You're exactly who would be helped by policies that decrease the concentration of wealth at the top.
6/13/2014 12:48 AM
moy23
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/13/2014 12:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 6/12/2014 9:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Maybe read my post a little closer.
you want to take more of the money I sacrifice for now (intended for my childrens education and my retirement) so that 28% of strangers can smoke cigs they apparently don't have the money to buy. All because you think that money matters more to them, than me. I find that repulsive. I gladly help those in need and donate a lot of my time to do so which is way more valuable to a poor or disabled person than money... too bad the govt cant figure that out.

begs the question - do you really think welfare checks help get people out of poverty? And if so, what %?
Someone making 100k a year with a wife and kids qualifies as middle class. You're exactly who would be helped by policies that decrease the concentration of wealth at the top.
And idiot moves by this president are killing the middle class but most of america is too financially stupid to figure that out. Take obamacares reduction in the FSA from $5000 to $2500. We had a baby last year we had responsibly planned to stock money away for in a health FSA, just as we had with the first child 3 years ago. Normally we can deduct $5000 right off the top of our taxable income which was fantastic, especially considering the enormous cost of having children. The difference from dropping it to $2500 cost us $700 ($2500 * .28 tax rate). That's real money, not theoretical money. Congrats.... A closed loophole. How does that help a middle class family? How did that decreased deduction hurt the wealthy more than the middle class?

My father-in-law is CEO of a hospital we can no longer go to as of next year cause they dropped cigna. Its right near our house. How crazy is that? We have to change every doctor (kids pediatritions, primary care doctor, the specialists we use) that we like and drive further to go to an in-network ER when someone is sick or hurt..... Or we have to find a new job that offers BCBS. How does this help the middle class? How does it hurt the wealthy when they can pay for whoever they darn well please?

How is it because I'm in banking I don't get to have my student loans forgiven by the govt? I help people all day long on a subject that should be in everyone's top 3 priorities (finance, family, health). Im middle class, the one the govt should be helping, right? How does this help me.... Especially when my sister in law, a social worker that makes very good money, gets hers forgiven. You always talk a big game about being fair. How's this fair?

Normally I'd say the presidential election doesn't really impact a person at the personal level and local voting is more important..... In the past that's been true.... But this president has done an amazing job at proving me wrong. Way to stick it to the rich! +1 for the middle class!
6/13/2014 7:48 AM (edited)
bad_luck
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I'm not arguing against any of that. I don't think Obama and this congress have done enough for the middle and lower classes. But that still doesn't change the fact that almost everyone would be better off if we didn't allow so much of the wealth to concentrate at the top.
6/13/2014 9:15 AM
moy23
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/13/2014 9:15:00 AM (view original):
I'm not arguing against any of that. I don't think Obama and this congress have done enough for the middle and lower classes. But that still doesn't change the fact that almost everyone would be better off if we didn't allow so much of the wealth to concentrate at the top.
"the top 1% of tax payers pay 38% of all income taxes yet only have a 20% share of total AGI. Furthermore, the top 50% of tax payers pay practically all of the nation’s federal taxes (97.3%) while commanding 87.25% of total AGI." (See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/#sthash.vcpwpxpA.dpuf) great article by the way.

So the top 1% already pay almost double their 'fair share' and the top 50% or literally half the nation is paying for the other half the nation. Is everyone better off in a nation where only half of its citizens pay taxes? I say no.... We'd be better off in a nation where all citizens pay taxes so that they have skin in the game rather than just looking for their next handout. 50% of the nation is not held accountable to contributing to society.... Where is the personal responsibility? Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country?
6/13/2014 10:06 AM
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