Minimum Wage Topic

bad_luck
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Posted by moy23 on 6/13/2014 10:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/13/2014 9:15:00 AM (view original):
I'm not arguing against any of that. I don't think Obama and this congress have done enough for the middle and lower classes. But that still doesn't change the fact that almost everyone would be better off if we didn't allow so much of the wealth to concentrate at the top.
"the top 1% of tax payers pay 38% of all income taxes yet only have a 20% share of total AGI. Furthermore, the top 50% of tax payers pay practically all of the nation’s federal taxes (97.3%) while commanding 87.25% of total AGI." (See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/#sthash.vcpwpxpA.dpuf) great article by the way.

So the top 1% already pay almost double their 'fair share' and the top 50% or literally half the nation is paying for the other half the nation. Is everyone better off in a nation where only half of its citizens pay taxes? I say no.... We'd be better off in a nation where all citizens pay taxes so that they have skin in the game rather than just looking for their next handout. 50% of the nation is not held accountable to contributing to society.... Where is the personal responsibility? Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country?
I don't consider a tax rate equal in percentage to AGI to be the "right number" for the reason we've been arguing for several pages. As a person's income grows, each dollar is worth less to them.
6/13/2014 10:17 AM
burnsy483
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Posted by tecwrg on 6/12/2014 4:01:00 PM (view original):
I don't know about you guys, but other than serial numbers on the bills themselves, the money I make isn't numbered consecutively.

Still, it's asinine to make a blanket statement that a guy who makes $100k values the last dollar of his income differently than the guy who makes $50k.  Different people have different needs based on all different factors, including where they live, their age, family status, etc.  Only they can decide how much their money is worth to them.

burnsy, every once in a while you have moments of clarity where you'll say something that leads me to believe you have the capability of applying logic and common sense to a discussion.  But inevitably, you eventually allow yourself to get sucked into BL's vortex of stupidity and become his lackey sidekick.  It's sad.
Yea, it's me not applying logic.  OK.

Why does the upper class pay a higher percentage in taxes?
6/13/2014 11:07 AM
MikeT23
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Because money means less to them!!!

Haven't you been paying attention?

6/13/2014 11:14 AM
burnsy483
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I'll put this a different way - If someone's paycheck was cut by 10%, what would be your guess on how they value their next dollar? More, less, or the same as they did before their paycheck was cut?
6/13/2014 11:21 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/12/2014 5:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 6/12/2014 4:56:00 PM (view original):
I value all my money equally.... I value my January paychecks just as much as my December paychecks.

This is a stupid argument. You either value money and you save it..... Or you don't value money and you spend it. I don't care what specific dollar that is or of its a $50 bill or a 1 cent penny.
Think of it this way. Is there an amount of money that you could have where adding more money doesn't improve your quality of life?

For example, if you made $10 billion already this year, would adding another $100,000 make a noticeable difference?
This.
6/13/2014 11:22 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/12/2014 8:40:00 PM (view original):

Quality of life = purchasing power?

Interesting.   The most fun I've ever had was when I had nothing.   Buy a bottle of cheap booze and...
A) invite the boys over and drink ourselves into ********
B) hang with the girlfriend, watch one of our 3 TV channels and **** all day.

No money, responsibilities or worries.  Being poor ain't as bad as you make it out to be.

I find it funny that NO ONE has addressed this.

First, moy has rambled on about how he sacrifices his time with family to make more money.  BL infers that your quality of life is directly related to the dollars in your pocket.   All of us have attempted to make it clear how much we value our money.

Second, almost everyone reflects on their college years as "the best times of my life."   Mostly it's because we hadn't started our quest for "things".   We lived day to day without a care in the world.

Third, if we're honest with ourselves, we somewhat envy the folks sucking the govt teat.   Some are doing nothing but living for the day.  And that's how we lived in college.  Carefree times except, this time, the taxpayer is paying for it.

Finally, if you think "enjoying yourself without worrying over money", something I think we all strive for(but have ****** up because we wanted "stuff" and have to pay for it), don't you think a guy who spends massive amounts of time trying to acquire money values it more than the guy who doesn't spend much time at all trying to get some? 
6/13/2014 11:31 AM
bad_luck
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I'm blocked. Why would I bother addressing your retarded argument?
6/13/2014 11:39 AM
burnsy483
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OK.  I can understand the idea of a dollar more on $40K as a 23 year old single guy in Kentucky, paying $650 a month in rent, partying it up, may not have as much value as later in life, when he makes $80K, but is married with a mortgage and saving money for his children's college tuition.  I understand that.  So let's say, for argument's sake, that the average guy who makes $40K has the same value on his next dollar than the average guy who makes $80K, or $150K, or $300K.  I don't agree with it, but I'll concede that for the sake of argument.

Now that said, someone who makes $25K is likely living paycheck-to-paycheck regardless of where he lives.  He values his next dollar more than income levels above him.  He needs to survive, he needs shelter, food, clothing.  

Someone who makes $1M is likely saving money, living comfortably, money probably isn't an issue for him.  If he's not, he's the exception rather than the rule.

Can you concede that the person making $1M values his next dollar less than the person making $25K? The lower class guy is concerned about paying rent, getting food.  The guy making a million will likely be going on a vacation within the next couple years.  One person needs most of his salary, another would likely be just as happy as he is now with a cut in his paycheck.
6/13/2014 12:08 PM
MikeT23
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No.  Do you think a guy who spends virtually every waking hour trying to make another dollar values money more than a guy who punches a clock at 8 AM/5 PM and then proceeds to drink his paycheck the day before his next check comes in without worrying about finding a better paying job?
6/13/2014 12:14 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2014 12:14:00 PM (view original):
No.  Do you think a guy who spends virtually every waking hour trying to make another dollar values money more than a guy who punches a clock at 8 AM/5 PM and then proceeds to drink his paycheck the day before his next check comes in without worrying about finding a better paying job?
Why are you assuming the guy making $25K is drinking his paycheck away and has no desire to get a better job?
6/13/2014 12:16 PM
MikeT23
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I think moy and BL value their money more than I value mine.    moy sacrifices family time to make more money and BL believes his quality of life is directly tied to his bank account.    I no longer do what moy does(although I do spend way too much "off" time thinking about business) and, except for a brief 4-5 year period, I've never subscribed to BL's line of thought.
6/13/2014 12:16 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 6/13/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2014 12:14:00 PM (view original):
No.  Do you think a guy who spends virtually every waking hour trying to make another dollar values money more than a guy who punches a clock at 8 AM/5 PM and then proceeds to drink his paycheck the day before his next check comes in without worrying about finding a better paying job?
Why are you assuming the guy making $25K is drinking his paycheck away and has no desire to get a better job?
We're doing hypotheticals.

He doesn't have to drink.  And he can spend his weekends seeking a better job.    Or, if you prefer, he can spend virtually every waking hour seeking a better job.   But then he's the first guy.
6/13/2014 12:18 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2014 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/13/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2014 12:14:00 PM (view original):
No.  Do you think a guy who spends virtually every waking hour trying to make another dollar values money more than a guy who punches a clock at 8 AM/5 PM and then proceeds to drink his paycheck the day before his next check comes in without worrying about finding a better paying job?
Why are you assuming the guy making $25K is drinking his paycheck away and has no desire to get a better job?
We're doing hypotheticals.

He doesn't have to drink.  And he can spend his weekends seeking a better job.    Or, if you prefer, he can spend virtually every waking hour seeking a better job.   But then he's the first guy.
The $25K is struggling to make ends meet.  If you don't like the number, make it lower.  Is there a line where we recognize "this guy needs the money more than someone else?" and should pay a lower amount of taxes to help give him an opportunity to stay on his feet?
6/13/2014 12:22 PM
bad_luck
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Two people are each sent $25,000. Guy 1 is homeless. Guy 2 made $400 million this year.

Which one is most likely going to see a noticeable improvement in the quality of their life (at least in the short term)?

The obvious answer is guy 1. The value of the extra 25k is less to the millionaire.
6/13/2014 12:25 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 6/13/2014 12:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2014 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/13/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2014 12:14:00 PM (view original):
No.  Do you think a guy who spends virtually every waking hour trying to make another dollar values money more than a guy who punches a clock at 8 AM/5 PM and then proceeds to drink his paycheck the day before his next check comes in without worrying about finding a better paying job?
Why are you assuming the guy making $25K is drinking his paycheck away and has no desire to get a better job?
We're doing hypotheticals.

He doesn't have to drink.  And he can spend his weekends seeking a better job.    Or, if you prefer, he can spend virtually every waking hour seeking a better job.   But then he's the first guy.
The $25K is struggling to make ends meet.  If you don't like the number, make it lower.  Is there a line where we recognize "this guy needs the money more than someone else?" and should pay a lower amount of taxes to help give him an opportunity to stay on his feet?
And, in case you didn't notice, I didn't assign a dollar figure to either of my guys.    They can both make a million or 25k.    But one is going to value his money more.


No, there is no line.  Circumstances dictate everything.  25k doesn't have to struggle to make ends meet.  I have a friend who makes $14 an hour.   He has a little condo, recently purchased a used car(2011), paid 2k to have his windows/doors replaced and just called me to ask if I was up for a road trip.   I realize that $14 an hour puts him closer to 30k but he is not struggling.
6/13/2014 12:26 PM
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