Critical news debate Topic

peder
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Good points - so what's needed is more info on a couple fronts so that cooler heads can prevail.
5/9/2015 10:07 AM
crickett13
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Posted by damag on 5/9/2015 8:59:00 AM (view original):
About this discussion this morning:

What if there's nothing TO adjust to?

As I said before, I have been told what to expect, told that I should think about increasing ADV scouting, and told that I can only do so by 4 million dollars to start with.

When this thing kicks in, and I put that 4 million dollars in, what am I going to SEE happen that tells me that I should keep increasing ADV because now it means something?  Because if I don't SEE how it works, why would I keep doing it?

The Staff post says a bunch of things that will change but NONE of them explicitly say "will force you to use ADV"... they only IMPLIED it.

We've come to a sort of consensus that asks one question, WILL ADV NOW BE TIED TO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE OTHER SCOUTING CATEGORIES?  Which is a concept which MikeT23 first prospected, but which Admin has neither confirmed nor denied.

IMO until we know that, this discussion is going in circles.

That's exactly why admin needs to respond. When I started playing this game the help page told us exactly what each budget category was for now they seem to want to keep it a secret. Sorry but I paid to beta test one of the other games on this site and have never played it since.

  I have little interest in playing a game where I don't know the basic structure especially when there seems to be no valid reason to keep that basic structure a secret. Keeping their mouth shut about it simply leads me to believe they either have not decided how it is going to work or they really don't know.
5/9/2015 10:15 AM
damag
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Cool.  Don't overreact yet.  tzentmeyer has responded before in this thread, he's monitoring it.

Where I'm at with this whole thing is, I've underreacted... so I keep reading other people's reactions to see if I should start to overreact yet.

5/9/2015 10:21 AM
damag
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Go back and read the Admin post.  It says the update is "focused primarily on making the Amateur Draft less formulaic and eliminating the trend of Advanced Budgets being set to $0."

Then it lists seven points, six of which, to this date, have nothing at all to do with ADV scouting.  The only one that should is the elimination of historical player growth patterns for players not on your own team.  Theoretically, if you can't see their patterns, you would need better ADV to project them.  However, you can still ballpark projections based on their draft position, age, and current, right?

Now, if the new level of "fuzziness" being introduced to draft and IFA projections leads to more of these players being overdrafted or not playing up to their expected levels, then OVER TIME an owner's "experience" projections should become less and less accurate.

But I say again... if you rarely if ever invest heavily in trading for another team's prospects, or if you already heavily discount whatever scouting projections you already get, then these things might not matter to you at all.

What MikeT23 says about one thing looks absolutely true, this definitely seems to remove the ability to save money on scouting by drafting only using current ratings.  Which seems rather minor to me.

 
5/9/2015 10:34 AM
crickett13
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I don't have an issue with any of that but the ADV should control all projections has been debated since the beginning of the thread.
 
  The fact that tz has responded in the thread but didn't make any statement concerning the largest debate in the thread is exactly what has led me to think they may still be considering doing just that or that they have done it and know it would cause a **** storm.
 
  His avoidance of the subject makes it seem like they are hiding something or just don't know how it really works.
5/9/2015 10:40 AM
jrnyfan01
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"Then it lists seven points, six of which, to this date, have nothing at all to do with ADV scouting.  The only one that should is the elimination of historical player growth patterns for players not on your own team.  Theoretically, if you can't see their patterns, you would need better ADV to project them.  However, you can still ballpark projections based on their draft position, age, and current, right?"

Wrong. My understanding is that you will not see the currents for prospects. Only the projections. So, if you spend zero on HS or COLL scouting, you would have no chance whatsoever of determining who to select with your draft pick. You will only see currents for your own players and free agents.

"Prospects (until signed) will only display projected ratings instead of both current and projected ratings."

But, you will still be required to hoard $6M in your prospect budget that you may or may not want to use for draft picks.

5/9/2015 10:47 AM
crickett13
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Posted by jrnyfan01 on 5/9/2015 10:49:00 AM (view original):
"Then it lists seven points, six of which, to this date, have nothing at all to do with ADV scouting.  The only one that should is the elimination of historical player growth patterns for players not on your own team.  Theoretically, if you can't see their patterns, you would need better ADV to project them.  However, you can still ballpark projections based on their draft position, age, and current, right?"

Wrong. My understanding is that you will not see the currents for prospects. Only the projections. So, if you spend zero on HS or COLL scouting, you would have no chance whatsoever of determining who to select with your draft pick. You will only see currents for your own players and free agents.

"Prospects (until signed) will only display projected ratings instead of both current and projected ratings."

But, you will still be required to hoard $6M in your prospect budget that you may or may not want to use for draft picks.

True but I have no issue with that. If you are using 0 for Int, HS or Col scouting then I don't see why you should be able to have a good idea of who to draft or sign based off current or in the case of Int based off demands. I don't think many people have all 3 of those at 0.

  My issue with what has been speculated about Adv is that would make it 4 times more important than it is now.

  Using your Capra team as an example you would have to draft all HS players since you have 16 there. On Int it wont matter because if you stay on 0 you wont see any IFA's anyway (I know I did it)
5/9/2015 11:12 AM (edited)
crickett13
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Now if adv affects everything that is an entirely different story but you are still in better shape than me since my 10 HS 10 Col and 16 INT become useless because of my 0 adv
5/9/2015 11:15 AM
headpirate
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WifS should reset all worlds to season 1 with the update - that would address all voiced complaints
5/9/2015 11:15 AM
crickett13
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No really all they need to do is tell us what adv will affect just like they did when the game first came out. There is no valid reason not to.
5/9/2015 11:23 AM
crickett13
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We knew what it was. If it has changed just tell us if it hasn't just tell us.

Advance Scouting Department - The advance scouts are responsible for projecting the ratings of all signed players within the franchise and on other franchises. The higher the budget, the more accurate your projected ratings will be for all players who have not yet reached the peak of their career. After a player reaches his peak, projected and current ratings are the same.

5/9/2015 11:26 AM
crickett13
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 7:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by crickett13 on 5/8/2015 6:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by crickett13 on 5/8/2015 1:04:00 PM (view original):
I don't agree at all. If there is one ring to rule them all everyone will want it. If adv suddenly becomes the single most important budget item because it is the only budget item that affects 3 other budget items then you are being forced to either 0 out everything, after all why scout col, hs or int if you wont see decent ratings anyway, or max out adv.
I'm not bothering to check another owner but do you have any IFA, HS or College budget that is not 0 or 20?

If you do, your argument has no merit.    If you don't, I'll have to confirm before continuing on with you.
LOL that's complete crap Mike. What I am saying is simple. I have no incentive to stay in a league where I will have a penalty when I can leave and join another league where I have an advantage. I use 0 because it gives me an advantage.
Other than you like your league, that is.

Please move to different worlds.   I don't think your type will be missed.

"BOOHOOHOO!!!!  I CAN'T ADJUST MY BUDGET TO 14M IMMEDIATELY!!!!  I'M TAKING MY BALL AND GOING TO ANOTHER WORLD WHERE I CAN!!!!!!"


It's that simple.
Season Franchise User Player Prospect Coach Coll. Scout HS Scout Int'l Scout Adv Scout Training Medical
34     131 6 8 0 0 0 0 20 20
34 Charleston Charge MikeT23 125 6 9 0 4 1 0 20 20

Gee I wonder why Mike wants adv to affect all projections. Boo Hoo I gamed the system more than anyone and don't want to be put at a competitive disadvantage.
5/9/2015 11:30 AM
arcticlegend
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Posted by esf0242 on 5/9/2015 1:00:00 AM (view original):
are you people serious? minority owner? did someone else chip in with me im not aware of?
i paid for a team (multiple teams btw for 8 yrs).....nobody hired me & is giving me money....this costs me. 
end of story
No, I wasn't being serious. I was hoping the comment about brothels would make that obvious.
5/9/2015 11:40 AM
arcticlegend
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But really, if you want to get technical, you pay for the right to play, not really the team itself. Once you're in the game, your role in the fictional HBD universe is a combination of manager and GM. The "owner" is the guy who sends you the email saying "Welcome to (name of your team's city).
5/9/2015 11:43 AM
joshkvt
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Posted by peder on 5/9/2015 6:35:00 AM (view original):
Since I am a customer of whatifsports, they should respect me. And not design strategies to screw me and laugh about it. Its $25 yes - but its $25 they want to continue to receive. Don't change the game and tell me I'm **** out of luck.

Whether or not others are in the same boat doesn't matter. Its a genergeneral customer service issue.

"Hey, Mr. Programmer, we've got 500 users on HBD but I'd like to screw one over."
  "No problem. Which one?"
"User name is peder."
  "OK. Let's see, he uses 0 ADV. Maybe we make that a bad thing?"
"Good idea! And we can pretend it's an update designed to make the game better and respond to user ideas."
  "It will take 60 hours of programming time. All told a $5-6K should do it."
"Well worth it! We can keep stealing his $25 and we'll be ahead of the game in no time."
  "What about the other 499 users?"
"They've been clamoring and fussing for updates for years. We can pretend that's the motivation."
  "Won't some of them leave?"
"Can't be helped? As long as we screw peder."
  "Consider it done. Be sure to send him a message that he's *** out of luck."
5/9/2015 11:50 AM
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